Donald Trump

[bluethrunthru]

Like Trump, you are confusing individual country’s defence budgets with their contribution to the running costs of NATO. Each NATO member pays an amount directly proportional to their GDP.

I am sure he and his people know but it feeds into his redneck supporters view on the world that the rest of the world piggy back on the US and need to be taught a lesson in economics - by a people who don't understand themselves - by all means dismantle NATO and then you are doing Putins work for him. Something Donald denies he is doing.

 

[Bill Walker]

Like Trump, you are confusing individual country’s defence budgets with their contribution to the running costs of NATO. Each NATO member pays an amount directly proportional to their GDP.

Exactly right and the US pays the highest proportion of GDP towards NATO
There is an agreement where each country will pay 2% of its GDP
All the countries I quoted pay less than 2%
You can see from the chart below Canada pay a measly 1.02% towards NATO

Personally I dont blame Trump for not being overwhelmed with this situation.

 

[Bill Walker]

I am sure he and his people know but it feeds into his redneck supporters view on the world that the rest of the world piggy back on the US and need to be taught a lesson in economics - by a people who don't understand themselves - by all means dismantle NATO and then you are doing Putins work for him. Something Donald denies he is doing.

If you were American how would you view the above NATO contribution chart ?

Would you describe it as fair ?

 

[bluethrunthru]

If you were American how would you view the above NATO contribution chart ?

Would you describe it as fair ?

I am not an American citizen therefore that question doesn't apply to me - you had better ask an American that one.

As to the chart the country I am a citizen of is comfortably within the 2% agreed figure so I am happy with "our" effort.

Would you by happy with the dismantling of NATO over money?

 

[bonespost]

 

[mat]

 

[Bill Walker]

I am not an American citizen therefore that question doesn't apply to me - you had better ask an American that one.

As to the chart the country I am a citizen of is comfortably within the 2% agreed figure so I am happy with "our" effort.

Would you by happy with the dismantling of NATO over money?

The point is you were saying in your previous post that the 'rednecks' that voted for him were lied too about other countries contributions to NATO
The CNN chart I posted proves that your claim is wrong, he is NOT lying but it is actually you who are deluding people with miss-truths about what Trump is saying to his rednecks
(not a very nice way to describe millions of people, is this the normal way you denigrate people youve never met ?)

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Exactly right and the US pays the highest proportion of GDP towards NATO
There is an agreement where each country will pay 2% of its GDP
All the countries I quoted pay less than 2%
You can see from the chart below Canada pay a measly 1.02% towards NATO

Personally I dont blame Trump for not being overwhelmed with this situation.

First of all, the agreement is to get to 2 pct by 2024 which, last I checked, isn’t now. NATO’s 2017 report notes that a number of these countries who are short have stepped up spending since the Wales accord, some growing defense spending 5 pct plus, and overall NATO defense spending is up since 2014, coinciding with global economic recovery.

I’d assume the Greeks are where they are given a weak GDP level. I note Trump has lambasted all those in red save Italy (it’s not clear who’s in charge to lambast) and Turkey, which I assume is because Erdogan is Trump’s kind of guy.

Of course we also don’t know if Trump is looking to stir up populist anger at allies and then went and found this “evidence” to support the feelings he wanted to incite, or read this first and said, “Hmmm. That’s not right” and didn’t bother to look through the accord. Either is possible.

But no one knows. That’s kind of, you know, the problem, as many of us have said about 8,000 times to little avail.

 

[idahoblues]

The point is you were saying in your previous post that the 'rednecks' that voted for him were lied too about other countries contributions to NATO
The CNN chart I posted proves that your claim is wrong, he is NOT lying but it is actually you who are deluding people with miss-truths about what Trump is saying to his rednecks
(not a very nice way to describe millions of people, is this the normal way you denigrate people youve never met ?)

The travesty of the last election was more the people that just didn't show up and vote, they all thought that it was a walk in for Clinton. I hated her too, but gave her my vote over a Trump

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

The travesty of the last election was more the people that just didn't show up and vote, they all thought that it was a walk in for Clinton. I hated her too, but gave her my vote over a Trump

Yep. Really pretty simple, isn’t it? I highly doubt blue voters will make that mistake in the midterms or in 2020. Nor will whoever the nominee is take Trump lightly or repeat the same mistakes Clinton made (like not even bothering to visit key battleground states). The blue nominee must outwork Trump, which won’t be easy (assuming he runs) despite his utter sloth because running as already-President is an enormous platform advantage. But I bet the number of straight blue-slate voters will be at an all time high in 18, then that record nearly matched in 20 were such things tracked. Those not in this country greatly underestimate the repugnance with which a huge swath of America views this man.

 

[buckshot]

Yep. Really pretty simple, isn’t it? I highly doubt blue voters will make that mistake in the midterms or in 2020. Nor will whoever the nominee is take Trump lightly or repeat the same mistakes Clinton made (like not even bothering to visit key battleground states). The blue nominee must outwork Trump, which won’t be easy (assuming he runs) despite his utter sloth because running as already-President is an enormous platform advantage. But I bet the number of straight blue-slate voters will be at an all time high in 18, then that record nearly matched in 20 were such things tracked. Those not in this country greatly underestimate the repugnance with which a huge swath of America views this man.

Ohio just won a Supreme Court cast to purge voter rolls of people they don’t want voting. More states will do the same now so there will be hundreds of thousands of Democrats/minorities who won’t be able to vote in Ohio, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, Wisconsin and New Mexico. Pennsylvania’s Governor is also up for reelection this year so we’re vulnerable too. Factor in that the Russians are still meddling and that Dumb Donald is still letting them do it and it’s an uphill battle.

We have seriously looked into moving to Canada.

 

[SWP's back]

Trump is bang on right about NATO, countries such as Germany Italy France & Canada are massively underpaying, whilst the USA pays the vast bulk of it, if I were a US tax payer i would not be happy about being kind of cheated out of this money, these countries should pay their share, or leave.

As Trump says he admires these countries for getting away with underpaying for 20 years.

If the Yanks didn’t keep kicking wasps nests then there’s a good chance we wouldn’t need to spend such a huge amount on defence.

You managed to read up on World War Two yet?

 

[SWP's back]

So what if the Canadian or UK PM gets upset, he/she wont be upset forever. He's doing what the working and middle class want him to do.

If you can point to any trade war having been better for the voters then please feel free.

The last time the US raised steel tariffs it backfired hugely.

 

[SWP's back]

Exactly right and the US pays the highest proportion of GDP towards NATO
There is an agreement where each country will pay 2% of its GDP
All the countries I quoted pay less than 2%
You can see from the chart below Canada pay a measly 1.02% towards NATO

Personally I dont blame Trump for not being overwhelmed with this situation.

But they don’t “pay it into NATO” do they.

They spend it on their war machines and army. Usually, in the case of the US, so they can go and invade a lot of sovereign states.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Ohio just won a Supreme Court cast to purge voter rolls of people they don’t want voting. More states will do the same now so there will be hundreds of thousands of Democrats/minorities who won’t be able to vote in Ohio, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, Wisconsin and New Mexico. Pennsylvania’s Governor is also up for reelection this year so we’re vulnerable too. Factor in that the Russians are still meddling and that Dumb Donald is still letting them do it and it’s an uphill battle.

We have seriously looked into moving to Canada.

I don't know enough about the numbers to know how much this matters. I do know extremists are winning Republican primaries. Rather than run progressives to combat them, blues need to run middle-grounders who can reclaim moderate voters appalled by Trump and his minions. And those are the blues winning their primaries by and large. It's the swing voters that need to turn out and turn out blue to turn the tide I believe.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

The fact that they had no set agenda for this 'summit' and the fact that the document they signed was so nebulous - compounded by Trump adding bits on afterwards ad hoc, means it is already unravelling. Kim is now adding his own bits on.
This was theatre and lacking any substance.

 

[basokla]

We have seriously looked into moving to Canada.

Why?

 

[Bill Walker]

Why?

No gun culture
Free health system
Less polluted

Not bad for a start

 

[west didsblue]

Exactly right and the US pays the highest proportion of GDP towards NATO
There is an agreement where each country will pay 2% of its GDP
All the countries I quoted pay less than 2%
You can see from the chart below Canada pay a measly 1.02% towards NATO

Personally I dont blame Trump for not being overwhelmed with this situation.

You’re still confused.
Not everything the US and other countries spend on defence goes to NATO. In fact, only a tiny proportion of it does. Most military operations that the US take part in are nothing to do with NATO. The reason it’s an issue is that if NATO has to respond to an attack on one of its members the US would end up picking up a disproportionate amount of the response. That hasn’t happened yet, although Trump is making it more likely by questioning US support for it and thereby encouraging Russia to do something in the Baltic states.

 

[Bill Walker]

But they don’t “pay it into NATO” do they.

They spend it on their war machines and army. Usually, in the case of the US, so they can go and invade a lot of sovereign states.

You obviously just hate the US and Trump

and your talking bollocks :)