Donald Trump

[SebastianBlue]

Fair sentiments, and yes I understand there is this drive on the part of the judges (particularly Dem appointed ones) to look impartial. How Engoron resisted finding Trump in contempt when he made a farce of his courtroom is commendable.

The problem is that there's a fine line where offering lenience to demonstrate impartiality will quickly fall into dereliction of duty. Everybody sees the problem but nobody wants to be the one to pull the trigger and so we're left with inaction, like a legal version of the Bystander Effect. This is particularly problematic when one side is playing strictly by the rules and the other isn't. It's Chomsky and his paradox of tolerance manifesting. If you try and tolerate the intolerant, then the intolerant will always win.

I think he needs to be soundly beaten in the election, and I still have some faith the US citizenry will do this. I also think the extremist faction you speak of are actually much weaker than many imagine and will fold like a deck chair when put under pressure. I look at Jan 6th, and I think on the one part, what an unbelievable situation for a country like the US to find itself in... But then on the other part I think, how fucking weak were they? Once they got in and sustained a few casualties, they took a few meme photos and left? They didn't occupy like a militia would, they were a disorganised rabble of fucking idiots. They don't seem particularly willing to die for the cause. And this is the hardcore support. I think there are dangerous people in the Trump ranks, political animals with fascist ideals, but I think the vast majority of the ground troops are all mouth and absolute cowards.

This is a lot of speculation though, based more on hope than anything scientific, for the sake of our US-based blues.

I agree re: the inherent issues with attempting to look impartial and the asymmetric tactics of stakeholders. That is what I was referencing with Trump’s team looking to capitalise on it, and the consequences of that.

And you may very well be right about his most militant supporters actually being weaker than many believe. I certainly hope you are.

But we have seen in the past initial insurrection attempts fail, be called weak and feeble by learned analyst and laymen alike, the danger and likelihood of a more systematic and effective attempt being widely downplayed, and the ringleader of that attempt not being dealt with earnestly and appropriately by the very court system they were looking to destroy, only for the second insurrection to be horrifically successful. The Beer Hall Putsch, the subsequent trial of Hitler and other members of Kampfbund, and Hitler’s appointment as Chancellor in 1933, after the success of the Nazi Party the following elections, comes to mind. Eerily, both the Munich Putsch and the 6th January Insurrection involved around 2,000 people.

In fact, there are so many uneasy parallels between the events in Germany between 1922 and 1932 and the events of the last 10 years or so in the US that what America is currently seeing makes a student of history quite apprehensive.

Often the mere act of proving something is actually possible—in this case that there was a large enough group of Americans willing to storm and occupy, however incompetently or cowardly, the capital building in Trump’s name—makes its reoccurrence much more probable in the future. That’s especially the case when considering idealogical exposure and media amplification effects.

But, as you say, this is indeed quite a lot of conjecture.

All we can do now as influence what we can for the outcome we want (for we non-US citizens that is a fairly limited opportunity) and hope for the best, whilst preparing for the worst.

Oh, and mercilessly take the piss out of Don Poorleone and his cronies.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

I'll be out there (Florida in a heavily Trump supporting area) for the election and I'm really not looking forward to it.

I don’t envy you. Though I think you’ll be fine if you’re deep enough behind enemy lines. My mum’s side of the family lived in the Quays for a time and as a child I grew up thinking I’d live there too one day. But then I married into a black family… so yeah, think we will be staying over this side of the Atlantic.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

No justification or opinion given by the judges involved. Don't know if that's normal but does make it impossible to understand why they would do this. Would anybody else be given this leniency when they stood on stage the day before declaring they had the full bond available in cash? It's fucking exhausting.

Between this, the delay to the hush money trial, the Fanni Willis nonsense in Georgia and Cannon spewing deranged guff in Florida, SCOTUS kicking the ballot case to Congress, is anybody left in any doubt as to how the chips are stacked?

We're seeing the end of empire here, a country that is quite literally allergic to holding its most powerful people to account. You might as well just crown Broke Donny and call him god emperor, because nobody is going to touch him this side of the election. Maybe they'll grow a backbone if he loses again because then it won't actually fucking matter.

Nothing will ever happen to him. If there was any integrity to the place there he should have been impeached when he had the job then all this would have been redundant anyway. Jokers.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

I agree re: the inherent issues with attempting to look impartial and the asymmetric tactics of stakeholders. That is what I was referencing with Trump’s team looking to capitalise on it, and the consequences of that.

And you may very well be right about his most militant supporters actually being weaker than many believe. I certainly hope you are.

But we have seen in the past initial insurrection attempts fail, be called weak and feeble by learned analyst and laymen alike, the danger and likelihood of a more systematic and effective attempt being widely downplayed, and the ringleader of that attempt not being dealt with earnestly and appropriately by the very court system they were looking to destroy, only for the second insurrection to be horrifically successful. The Beer Hall Putsch, the subsequent trial of Hitler and other members of Kampfbund, and Hitler’s appointment as Chancellor in 1933, after the success of the Nazi Party the following elections, comes to mind. Eerily, both the Munich Putsch and the 6th January Insurrection involved around 2,000 people.

In fact, there are so many uneasy parallels between the events in Germany between 1922 and 1932 and the events of the last 10 years or so in the US that what America is currently seeing makes a student of history quite apprehensive.

Often the mere act of proving something is actually possible—in this case that there was a large enough group of Americans willing to storm and occupy, however incompetently or cowardly, the capital building in Trump’s name—makes its reoccurrence much more probable in the future. That’s especially the case when considering idealogical exposure and media amplification effects.

But, as you say, this is indeed quite a lot of conjecture.

All we can do now as influence what we can for the outcome we want (for we non-US citizens that is a fairly limited opportunity) and hope for the best, whilst preparing for the worst.

Oh, and mercilessly take the piss out of Don Poorleone and his cronies.

Hard to disagree with any of that. I’m always wary of the “enemy is both weak and strong” narratives which I myself have fallen into numerous times. It’s all too easy to call Trump and his cronies out for their incompetence and stupidity and in the same breath call them an existential threat to democracy.

You highlight the truth which is that they might have been stupid and incompetent in the past, but they are also human and so they are learning. They’re pushing at the cracks in the edifice to see what bits of it start to fall. We need to disregard the mad ramblings and the idiocy because underneath it is something much more sinister which we should be focusing on.

I wholly believe Trump is an idiot, but he’s an idiot with dangerous friends who are much smarter than him. And like you say, now they have seen what’s possible, you can be sure they’re licking their lips at the thought of getting another opportunity.

 

[Ashton Moss Messi]

I am going to go out on a limb and wager he’s already gay.

Maybe not, but his boyfriend is.

 

[domalino]

No justification or opinion given by the judges involved. Don't know if that's normal but does make it impossible to understand why they would do this.

It’s not normal.

When Trump is finally gone, the USA desperately needs judicial oversight legislation.

Between this and Cannon last week, there are now judges who plainly are not even pretending to uphold the law, and are making corrupt decisions knowing there’s no recourse to punish them.

 

[super_city_si]

Nothing will ever happen to him. If there was any integrity to the place there he should have been impeached when he had the job then all this would have been redundant anyway. Jokers.

He calls their bluff and everytime they shit it. This was a chance to finally land a blow and again they backed down. Pathetic.

 

[super_city_si]

Doesn't this set a precedent for others now? Say someone gets a $100k fine, can they appeal and just offer $20k as bond? What is the procedure begind this? Isnt there a set definition of how this works? Sounds like a clown show

 

[domalino]

Doesn't this set a precedent for others now? Say someone gets a $100k fine, can they appeal and just offer $20k as bond? What is the procedure begind this? Isnt there a set definition of how this works? Sounds like a clown show

As long as you’ve got the appeals court in pocket.


The worst thing about this is that the $450m isn’t even a fine. They could have added a fine, but because they’re so keen to appear fair, he’s not being punished at all for 20 years of fraud, simply being made to pay back the exact amount of money the taxman didn’t get because of his crimes.

At every step they go out of their way to be absolutely unimpeachable, and then the MAGA lot just openly break the law to keep him out of prison.

 

[SebastianBlue]

As long as you’ve got the appeals court in pocket.


The worst thing about this is that the $450m isn’t even a fine. They could have added a fine, but because they’re so keen to appear fair, he’s not being punished at all for 20 years of fraud, simply being made to pay back the exact amount of money the taxman didn’t get because of his crimes.

At every step they go out of their way to be absolutely unimpeachable, and then the MAGA lot just openly break the law to keep him out of prison.

It’s worse than that. It’s not just the Trump appointees or the conservative judges directly aiding him.

Progressive, left-leaning jurists are going out of their way to appear impartial so as to not give Trump and his cronies any legitimate avenues to undermine or dismiss rulings and judgments, or the wider public reason to question the legitimacy of the courts. The problem with that, as I and others have pointed out many times, is one side is not playing by the rules and actively working to take advantage of the side that is.

And the obvious corruption of the Supreme Court is obviously largely rendering those efforts fruitless.

But the alternative is just going full force in to actual accountability, which to people that are familiar with the justice system and precedent will appear reasonable, but to the vast majority who are not will appear draconian.

The decent, fair minded judges are and have been in lose-lose situation. And the Trump cabal know that and actively leverage it.