Donald Trump

[TonyM]

It’s also important to remember how the dynamics of a cult (which is what MAGAism is) are designed to entrap members. When someone joins—either slowly or all at once—they are not only indoctrinated to reject all evidence contrary to the beliefs of the cult, they are pressured (or outright instructed) to cut off ties with all others that are not true believers (members of the cult). This shrinks their community, and subsequently their perception of their own general value and purpose, to only the collective of zealots and manipulative (and most often abusive and exploitive) leaders.

Often times they are even pressured or instructed to either give all of their wealth to the cult (again, usually to the leaders) or just give it away. This further isolates them and makes them much more (or entirely) dependent on the cult community for survival, much less prosperity. It also tends to strengthen the hold the cult leadership has on the common members and acolytes, as the leadership often use the wealth to maintain systems of containment and control.

Once more, cults often establish and demonstrate dire (sometimes violent) consequences for leaving, whatever your reason. They make it clear that not only will you never be allowed to return, but they will make you pay for your desertion long after your departure. In some ways, you will always be a member, whether you like it or not. Till death do you part.

This has the very intentional consequence of making disavowing the cult’s teachings and beliefs not just a matter of changing one’s mind—with all of the psychological difficulty that comes with that process—but also losing the only source of social and financial support you now have, and likely making your life outside of the cult miserable (or unlikely).

Of course, for some within MAGA it is not quite as extreme as joining Heaven’s Gate or Jonestown. But some of these elements are very much present, particularly the radicalisation, shifting indoctrination, social isolation, psychological and financial exploitation (sometimes to an extreme, as we are seeing now), deserter punishment, and definitely leader worship.

For most still in the movement at this point, they have gone all in, committing their mind, body, soul, and worldly possessions. For many, the idea of renouncing their beliefs comes with very real, very undesirable consequences. Their entire sense of self has become entrenched the MAGA world.

It really isn’t that far off of the development of the Nazi social order.

So in addition to what you have said, which is a very real hinderance to efforts to breakdown the MAGA cult and free the minds of the cultists, you also have the structural constraints limiting success.

TL;DR
MAGA is a cult and members experience many of the constraints and dangers inherent to cult membership (and degenerate, megalomaniacal leaders). The cult’s structure and systems of control make it that much harder to help them break free of the ideology.

We are a cult too. A nice cult (in the main). Not as good at bricking buses or being offended or stating that it means more as a proper cuntish cult but still a cult.

 

[TonyM]

The water came from a meteor impact in the sea, thus causing a wave/tsunami. It would have filled up empty space and devastated anything in its path. That’s why the Dead Sea is a salt water body miles from the ocean and as someone else pointed out probably created the Mediterranean Sea too. The flood may have not been worldwide, just anywhere in the path of the wave. Numerous cultures in the Americas talk of fire in the sky then floods.

The water came from an extremely long piss by God.

 

[Wretched Vengeance]

We need a Trump/Putin alliance and they bum each other to fucking death.

Pait of rotten cunts.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

I’ve been reading commentaries in a few different online spaces (always a dangerous thing) and it is both enlightening but also extremely depressing.

What I’ve found as a common theme is that a lot of Republicans will vote for Trump not out of love for him but because he’s “their guy” (no surprise there). But what’s more, these people have been convinced that the media narrative of him being a “threat to democracy” isn’t the reality. They are convinced he will go and serve his four years and the checks and balances will ensure he moves on, and if he doesn’t they are sure that people will turn against him and he will be forced to move on. They think the threat to democracy is a Democrat campaign slogan and not reality. Jan 6th was much ado about nothing. And this is why his polling is holding up more than might be expected.

Obviously to me this looks so frustratingly naive it is almost beyond comprehension. It shows incredible faith in the checks and balances of the US and no understanding of the damage an anti-democratic executive can do to the other branches of government. It intentionally forgets basically all of human history and the times that we have been here before.

There’s plenty of Republicans who want an autocrat, but there’s a big enough critical mass of those that don’t that if you can persuade them of the threat they might yet choose to abstain.

It does make me wonder if it’s all delaying the inevitable though. If this crumbling empire of democracy thinks itself so impervious to corruption then it’s only a matter of time until somebody comes along with ill-intent. I take no pleasure in saying this but maybe it will take a Trump to make them realise. The only upside being he is so incompetent that he might yet find a way to bungle a second opportunity.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I’ve been reading commentaries in a few different online spaces (always a dangerous thing) and it is both enlightening but also extremely depressing.

What I’ve found as a common theme is that a lot of Republicans will vote for Trump not out of love for him but because he’s “their guy” (no surprise there). But what’s more, these people have been convinced that the media narrative of him being a “threat to democracy” isn’t the reality. They are convinced he will go and serve his four years and the checks and balances will ensure he moves on, and if he doesn’t they are sure that people will turn against him and he will be forced to move on. They think the threat to democracy is a Democrat campaign slogan and not reality. Jan 6th was much ado about nothing. And this is why his polling is holding up more than might be expected.

Obviously to me this looks so frustratingly naive it is almost beyond comprehension. It shows incredible faith in the checks and balances of the US and no understanding of the damage an anti-democratic executive can do to the other branches of government. It intentionally forgets basically all of human history and the times that we have been here before.

There’s plenty of Republicans who want an autocrat, but there’s a big enough critical mass of those that don’t that if you can persuade them of the threat they might yet choose to abstain.

It does make me wonder if it’s all delaying the inevitable though. If this crumbling empire of democracy thinks itself so impervious to corruption then it’s only a matter of time until somebody comes along with ill-intent. I take no pleasure in saying this but maybe it will take a Trump to make them realise. The only upside being he is so incompetent that he might yet find a way to bungle a second opportunity.

But it’s all part and parcel of the same cult mentality grounded in cognitive dissonance. If you admit that Jan 6 was an attempt to overthrow the Constitution and the nation’s government, and you support the GOP, then you yourself are supportive of a coup attempt by the transitive property, which is inherently anti-democracy. Who is going to admit that, save a nutter? So you rationali(s)ze your support by saying Jan 6 wasn’t “really” a coup. You CAN’T say it was and still support Trump, so obviously you’re going to say it wasn’t whether you in your heart of hearts believe it or not.

Like all democracies, the US system works on TRUST. TRUST that elected officials aren’t going to abuse power. Trust that elected officials hold democracy at their core. TRUST that if a government official abuses that trust, that other government officials will hold that abuser to task. It isn’t the fragile state of US-in-particular democracy that’s the problem. This is an inherent issue in all democracies. Plenty of alleged ones have in their history had to deal with what the US is/has.

The fact that Trump is so stupid and venal that he’s willing to throw the nation under the bus to save himself isn’t necessarily the harbinger of something else — he’s a fucking outlier. He’s six standard deviations from the norm in the nation’s history thus far. If the nation defeats him, survives him and moves on, I’d say you could argue that it’s a sign of relative strength. Mind, I am not at all sure the damage he’s done hasn’t weakened the foundations so that worse won’t come along, to your point. But I think you also have to think through that if the nation DOES survive this, it could also emerge stronger.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

But it’s all part and parcel of the same cult mentality grounded in cognitive dissonance. If you admit that Jan 6 was an attempt to overthrow the Constitution and the nation’s government, and you support the GOP, then you yourself are supportive of a coup attempt by the transitive property, which is inherently anti-democracy. Who is going to admit that, save a nutter? So you rationali(s)ze your support by saying Jan 6 wasn’t “really” a coup. You CAN’T say it was and still support Trump, so obviously you’re going to say it wasn’t whether you in your heart of hearts believe it or not.

Like all democracies, the US system works on TRUST. TRUST that elected officials aren’t going to abuse power. Trust that elected officials hold democracy at their core. TRUST that if a government official abuses that trust, that other government officials will hold that abuser to task. It isn’t the fragile state of US-in-particular democracy that’s the problem. This is an inherent issue in all democracies. Plenty of alleged ones have in their history had to deal with what the US is/has.

The fact that Trump is so stupid and venal that he’s willing to throw the nation under the bus to save himself isn’t necessarily the harbinger of something else — he’s a fucking outlier. He’s six standard deviations from the norm in the nation’s history thus far. If the nation defeats him, survives him and moves on, I’d say you could argue that it’s a sign of relative strength. Mind, I am not at all sure the damage he’s done hasn’t weakened the foundations so that worse won’t come along, to your point. But I think you also have to think through that if the nation DOES survive this, it could also emerge stronger.

I agree with all of that. My only slight deviation is that I think your first paragraph describes the MAGA cult perfectly, but might not describe all people who are thinking of voting for Trump.

My point is that I think there exists a strata of people out there who aren’t fully paid up members of the MAGA cult, they are just relatively ordinary people who are hopelessly naive. I think the cult-like stance of the more extreme members of the party is effectively contaminating the narrative that these people hear and so when they see things like “threat to democracy” they aren’t the ones that think “Biden/Obama/Clinton conspiracy, lock them up, Q-anon”, they are the ones that just go “meh” and wave it off.

There is almost certainly a group of people that are less politically engaged and so probably think by taking this stance they are just being “moderate”. When in fact they are actually ignoring these blaring warning signs under some misguided apprehension that everything is just some political stunt.

If the US is going to avoid further damage to its foundations then these are the people Biden needs to reach.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I agree with all of that. My only slight deviation is that I think your first paragraph describes the MAGA cult perfectly, but might not describe all people who are thinking of voting for Trump.

My point is that I think there exists a strata of people out there who aren’t fully paid up members of the MAGA cult, they are just relatively ordinary people who are hopelessly naive. I think the cult-like stance of the more extreme members of the party is effectively contaminating the narrative that these people hear and so when they see things like “threat to democracy” they aren’t the ones that think “Biden/Obama/Clinton conspiracy, lock them up, Q-anon”, they are the ones that just go “meh” and wave it off.

There is almost certainly a group of people that are less politically engaged and so probably think by taking this stance they are just being “moderate”. When in fact they are actually ignoring these blaring warning signs under some misguided apprehension that everything is just some political stunt.

If the US is going to avoid further damage to its foundations then these are the people Biden needs to reach.

I agree. The comparatively GOP supporters that I know are, for the most part, simply wrapped up in their belief that conservative economic policies lead to their own greater prosperity, and as such, they cannot bring themselves to support Democrats on that basis. I can't think of one who likes or will even defend Donald Trump to my face. So they demoniz(s)e Biden, or really Democrats generally, based on antiquated notions that today's GOP is still supportive of "better" policies that discourage government spending, encourage de-regulation, lower taxes and increase economic growth.

Of course these are all, or will be all, casualties in the face of slavish Trumpist cultism -- none of them matter when it comes down to the GOP's only true platform plank, which is "whatever most triggers libs." A platform focused on lowering taxes doesn't trigger a lib; a platform encouraging teachers to carry guns or banning transpeople from high school sports does.

 

[SebastianBlue]

We’re a few weeks away from Trump posting images and videos of Biden with laser sight dots on his forehead. And the lone wolf whistles only get more explicit from there.

Trump posts video with an image of a hog-tied Biden, drawing a rebuke from campaign​

The U.S. Secret Service released a statement saying it “does not confirm or comment on matters of protective intelligence.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/30/trump-posts-video-with-an-image-of-a-hog-tied-biden-drawing-a-rebuke-from-democrats-campaign-00149837

 

[SebastianBlue]

If the US is going to avoid further damage to its foundations then these are the people Biden needs to reach.

I think expanding Biden’s Republican voter support should actually be the secondary objective of his campaign.

His first objective should be to stop haemorrhaging democrat and independent support (especially from younger voters) by disingenuously proclaiming opposition to the deplorable actions of Israeli’s far-right government in Gaza and the West Bank whilst actually quietly supporting the genocide.

Right now I am genuinely worried about the percentage of the electorate that will simply stay home on election day (or vote for the No Labels candidate) if things continue on the path they are.

I have heard from several people in their 20s in the last few days that say they can’t vote for someone who is actively supporting genocide, regardless of whether their main opponent is Trump.

I am hoping that much of that is posturing, given that Trump would likely be even more supportive of the genocidal madness of Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, and the other Kahanists than Biden, and when the day comes, they’ll vote for Biden to avoid the very real possibility that American democracy functionally dies in the next 5 years or so.

But I also think the Biden admin will have a big hand in influencing that outcome. And it’s not doing an especially good job at this moment.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

I think expanding Biden’s Republican voter support should actually be the secondary objective of his campaign.

His first objective should be to stop haemorrhaging democrat and independent support (especially from younger voters) by disingenuously proclaiming opposition to the deplorable actions of Israeli’s far-right government in Gaza and the West Bank whilst actually quietly supporting the genocide.

Right now I am genuinely worried about the percentage of the electorate that will simply stay home on election day (or vote for the No Labels candidate) if things continue on the path they are.

I have heard from several people in their 20s in the last few days that say they can’t vote for someone who is actively supporting genocide, regardless of whether their main opponent is Trump.

I am hoping that much of that is posturing, given that Trump would likely be even more supportive of the genocidal madness of Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, and the other Kahanists than Biden, and when the day comes, they’ll vote for Biden to avoid the very real possibility that American democracy functionally dies in the next 5 years or so.

But I also think the Biden admin will have a big hand in influencing that outcome. And it’s not doing an especially good job at this moment.

You might be right, I guess the two questions are
1) are the voters you talk about well-represented in the swing states where it matters, or will it be concentrated in places like New York. I guess Michigan is a likely candidate, but what about Georgia, Pennsylvania, Arizona?
2) if these are disproportionately young people <22 years old, they didn't vote last time anyway, so they don't represent a loss of votes, only a lost opportunity where the demographic shifts could really hurt Trump.

I think you are right, because there has been a notable shift in the PR-stance of the Biden administration, particularly with the abstention in the UN vote. And just to clarify, I don't at all think this goes nearly far enough for most people (me included) but it does probably signal that the Dems are worried about it.