Donald Trump

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Reagan chose to serve because he liked the spotlight, despised the Civil Rights movement, and wanted to install a White Christian Nationalist government in America.

And he did a decent job of it, even saving the GOP in the process.

Much of the state of the Republican Party now, and the rise of Trump, is only possible because of Reagan’s “Let’s Make America Great Again”. It wasn’t even really a “right” party until he took hold.

I really encourage you to listen to the podcast series from Ben Bradford or read the work of Daniel K. Williams on Reagan and the rise of the modern Christian Right (“Moral Majority”).

There is so much romanticisation and sanitisation of Reagan’s platform and presidency (even ignoring the economic damage he did to the US and beyond), even in this thread.

I mean, he admired and almost asked George Wallace to be his running mate. That should give you pause.

We agree Trump is much worse, but Reagan was also very bad, especially as Trump would likely not have been president without Reagan MAGAifying the GOP (and even a large portion of the democrats at that time).

We don’t agree, mate. Trump isn’t just “much worse”. He’s uniquely bad in the annals of American history. You are talking about what caused the cancer instead of curing it. I don’t care what caused it. At all. I want to cure it. The debate as to cause is worth having and maybe were I as knowledgeable as you I’d agree. But right now I do not care. I can’t stress that enough. Every ounce of mental energy spent doing it is energy not spent defeating it. I care that we defeat what’s in front of us.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Why did Reagan choose to serve? Why did Trump?

And I’d say Newt Gingrich was more influential strategically in that regard, but again — doesn’t matter to the current situation at hand.

What is this notion of 'service' that Americans have all about? Reagan didnt serve, none of them 'serve'

 

[SebastianBlue]

We don’t agree, mate. Trump isn’t just “much worse”. He’s uniquely bad in the annals of American history. You are talking about what caused the cancer instead of curing it. I don’t care what caused it. At all. I want to cure it. The debate as to cause is worth having and maybe were I as knowledgeable as you I’d agree. But right now I do not care. I can’t stress that enough. Every ounce of mental energy spent doing it is energy not spent defeating it. I care that we defeat what’s in front of us.

Deciding to respond tonight as you have said you don’t want to carry on the debate, and I am happy to move on from it if you genuinely do not care.

I did want to sign off on it by clarifying why I have been talking about Reagan (et al) recently, though, as I think it very much relates to your stance.

I am talking about the root causes of the cancer because excising Trump will not be enough to cure it. He is the most dangerous cluster of tumours the American body has seen in recent history, but he isn’t the primary source. He is secondary. The cancer is in the liver, where Reagan (and his white Christian nationalist backers) seeded it, and has been working its way through the portal system to the rest of the body for decades. The cause must be addressed, not just the worst symptoms.

We have to understand when and where it came from, how and why it arose, and what has to be done to remove it at origin to actually cure the cancer.

That is the reason behind my zealous discussion of Reagan, the nature of his “Let’s Make America Great Again” / “Moral Majority” movement, how he helped create the distinct “right” v “left” party dynamics we have now (and stoked political and racial polarisation for personal/political gain), his righteous belief in a white Christian nationalist system of government, and the implications of all of that for the challenges, dangers, and dysfunction we are experiencing now.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Can we get back to giving it to the shitgibbon.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Deciding to respond tonight as you have said you don’t want to carry on the debate, and I am happy to move on from it if you genuinely do not care.

I did want to sign off on it by clarifying why I have been talking about Reagan (et al) recently, though, as I think it very much relates to your stance.

I am talking about the root causes of the cancer because excising Trump will not be enough to cure it. He is the most dangerous cluster of tumours the American body has seen in recent history, but he isn’t the primary source. He is secondary. The cancer is in the liver, where Reagan (and his white Christian nationalist backers) seeded it, and has been working its way through the portal system to the rest of the body for decades. The cause must be addressed, not just the worst symptoms.

We have to understand when and where it came from, how and why it arose, and what has to be done to remove it at origin to actually cure the cancer.

That is the reason behind my zealous discussion of Reagan, the nature of his “Let’s Make America Great Again” / “Moral Majority” movement, how he helped create the distinct “right” v “left” party dynamics we have now (and stoked political and racial polarisation for personal/political gain), his righteous belief in a white Christian nationalist system of government, and the implications of all of that for the challenges, dangers, and dysfunction we are experiencing now.

I’d submit that if Trump loses, the GOP must of needs rewrite its playbook to win back the middle again or risk becoming permanently disenfranchised via the Electoral College when demographics turn TX, GA, NC and likely others blue — same as happened in CA, OR, WA and CO already. That or wait until a bad enough economic contraction / foreign policy faux pas opens up an opportunity (same as Reagan).

I never felt like the Republic was at stake under any President until this one — not even Nixon in hindsight though that was closer than I think anyone thought when we rewind the tape.

There’s no rooting out that sometimes people who feel hopelessly disenfranchised turn to extremist zealots.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

I’d submit that if Trump loses, the GOP must of needs rewrite its playbook to win back the middle again or risk becoming permanently disenfranchised via the Electoral College when demographics turn TX, GA, NC and likely others blue — same as happened in CA, OR, WA and CO already. That or wait until a bad enough economic contraction / foreign policy faux pas opens up an opportunity (same as Reagan).

I never felt like the Republic was at stake under any President until this one — not even Nixon in hindsight though that was closer than I think anyone thought when we rewind the tape.

There’s no rooting out that sometimes people who feel hopelessly disenfranchised turn to extremist zealots.

It wasnt closer than anyone thought. Bork humiliated himself and the party were repelled by it. After that it was curtains for him.

This beauty is, I agree, a threat to the Republic there. By definition. Why those who pledge allegiance to it want to vote, again, for a man who wants a dictatorship is laughable actually

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

It wasnt closer than anyone thought. Bork humiliated himself and the party were repelled by it. After that it was curtains for him.

This beauty is, I agree, a threat to the Republic there. By definition. Why those who pledge allegiance to it want to vote, again, for a man who wants a dictatorship is laughable actually

I’m really referring to Nixon actually, albeit briefly, considering bringing in the military when it looked like impeachment was nigh. There were still some in the Cabinet and especially among the staff who were supportive of Nixon until the smoking gun tape. That’s when it all collapsed, though the Saturday Night Massacre was a huge blow. Bork allegedly said he’d fire Cox then resign too but was persuaded to stay so there’d be someone to run Justice.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Deciding to respond tonight as you have said you don’t want to carry on the debate, and I am happy to move on from it if you genuinely do not care.

I did want to sign off on it by clarifying why I have been talking about Reagan (et al) recently, though, as I think it very much relates to your stance.

I am talking about the root causes of the cancer because excising Trump will not be enough to cure it. He is the most dangerous cluster of tumours the American body has seen in recent history, but he isn’t the primary source. He is secondary. The cancer is in the liver, where Reagan (and his white Christian nationalist backers) seeded it, and has been working its way through the portal system to the rest of the body for decades. The cause must be addressed, not just the worst symptoms.

We have to understand when and where it came from, how and why it arose, and what has to be done to remove it at origin to actually cure the cancer.

That is the reason behind my zealous discussion of Reagan, the nature of his “Let’s Make America Great Again” / “Moral Majority” movement, how he helped create the distinct “right” v “left” party dynamics we have now (and stoked political and racial polarisation for personal/political gain), his righteous belief in a white Christian nationalist system of government, and the implications of all of that for the challenges, dangers, and dysfunction we are experiencing now.

I should re-emphasize I’m not prepared to discuss Reagan’s evil or his role in today’s GOP because I’m, well, not prepared, not because I want to defend him. My vote for him was my worst vote in hindsight (Iran Contra disgusted me). But it’s also not important to me right now as I mentioned.

 

[TinFoilHat]

 

[AliBobbyJ]

Trump surprised no one by saying he won't guarantee to accept the 2024 election result. Now other leading Republicans are also saying they won't do so. Tim Scott the latest. Here's a thing that has been a constant fundamental of political life - of democracy - and they are shying away from it. In Scott's case it's because he want to be on the ballot or at least get a Cabinet position, more broadly it's another measure of the hold DT has on the party.