Double Pivot

Pep needs to find out why the second half performance against Wolves was just like we played for most of last season. We dropped fat to many points from winning positions last season. This is the reason why we fell so many points behind Livarpool last season.

We need to find out why we are always coming up short in the second half of matches. If Wolves had far to many chances and could have won the match quite easily but for very poor finishing. If this continues all the way to the end of the season, we will once again fall short of being champions. Livarpool, Chelsea and Arsenal have all strengthened their teams while Pep seems to think that we don't need to do this. With the transfer window closing next Monday, we still need another striker, a defensive mid-fielder and another centre back. if these are not coming in it will be a very hard and long season.
 
mccity said:
I think the difficulty in assessing the midfield pairing is that regardless of who we play in the two positions it's heavily reliant on really strong pressing from the front 4 ahead of them. With just 4 players instead of 5 in attacking positions it's going to be more difficult to create chances and pin teams back hence the importance of the press. We did it really well in the first half against Wolves.

You take away that press, and the front 4 become sitting ducks. Then whenever attacks break down and given that we're going to press whatever's going on it ends up with us being rather easy to slice through. Tiredness can cause this just as it did in the second half against Wolves.

This system we saw against Wolves might come unstuck if Aguero or Mahrez play, especially both. They can't press like any of the other attackers quite can, although they'll both give it a go and press when they can. When these two play, we'd probably need another player higher with De Bruyne to support the press and ensure that the likes of Aguero and Mahrez have the ball as much as possible to do their magic. I think a difficulty we had last season was that Gundogan nor Silva especially had the relentlessness to do that in the other #8 role, so the press failed again. And we were cut open again, and it's even worse with only one defensively positioned midfielder.

Although on top of this, this is where having top CBs helps us. Because when we get played through they can reliably deal with whatever comes against them. At least with a reasonable amount of success, as playing high up is going to get the better of even the best defenders from time to time. It means that whenever the press does go a bit awry the CBs can just mop shit up for long enough to give the pressing players a chance to get back up to it.


The only time a double pivot would work with us without the need of a super strong press is the rare occasion we play a team that presses us and we need a way to play out patiently, such as some recent fixtures against Liverpool and away at Real Madrid. But that's a really specific scenario.


Basically, the most important thing is that the front players (ie De Bruyne + front 3) press really well and the CBs don't shit the bed. The rest will take care of itself. Rodri, Fernandinho, and Gundogan, and Bernardo if he plays there all have enough quality and in game intelligence to ensure that as long as the first two conditions are met then they can support both attack in control and press and defence in whatever way is necessary.
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Assuming all was equal in skill & intelligence & all round ability, then the fitter & more mobile the midfield, the more effective the attack & defence will be.

Then if the midfielders happen to be fitter, faster, & also better at tackling, better at creating, better at scoring, the team improves way beyond.

We are one of the best teams in history & we rely on Gundogan, Rodri & Fernandinho, who between them lack many of those characteristics.

There is absolutely no argument for not replacing all of them, apart from finding the right players.
 
King KdB of Belgium said:
Pep needs to find out why the second half performance against Wolves was just like we played for most of last season. We dropped fat to many points from winning positions last season. This is the reason why we fell so many points behind Livarpool last season.

We need to find out why we are always coming up short in the second half of matches. If Wolves had far to many chances and could have won the match quite easily but for very poor finishing. If this continues all the way to the end of the season, we will once again fall short of being champions. Livarpool, Chelsea and Arsenal have all strengthened their teams while Pep seems to think that we don't need to do this. With the transfer window closing next Monday, we still need another striker, a defensive mid-fielder and another centre back. if these are not coming in it will be a very hard and long season.
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How does Pep feel we do not need to strengthen? This is the kind of mind numbing nonsense that has no basis in reality whatsoever.
 
King KdB of Belgium said:
Pep needs to find out why the second half performance against Wolves was just like we played for most of last season. We dropped fat to many points from winning positions last season. This is the reason why we fell so many points behind Livarpool last season.

We need to find out why we are always coming up short in the second half of matches. If Wolves had far to many chances and could have won the match quite easily but for very poor finishing. If this continues all the way to the end of the season, we will once again fall short of being champions. Livarpool, Chelsea and Arsenal have all strengthened their teams while Pep seems to think that we don't need to do this. With the transfer window closing next Monday, we still need another striker, a defensive mid-fielder and another centre back. if these are not coming in it will be a very hard and long season.
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What a shockingly ignorant post. To answer your original dumb as fuck question - errr maybe it’s because in this situation Wolves we’re a week or two ahead of us fitness wise and so naturally we tired as the game wore on.

Miserable fuckers like you wind me up. We get a brilliant away win at a very good team despite missing several first team regulars and being seriously undercooked and you’re bleating on about the 2nd half.

“Wolves could have won the match quite easily but for poor finishing” shows you don’t understand football. Good chances when you’re behind, especially against a superior team, come with added pressure which contributes to poor finishing. What about the chances we missed, don’t they count ?
 
King KdB of Belgium said:
Pep needs to find out why the second half performance against Wolves was just like we played for most of last season. We dropped fat to many points from winning positions last season. This is the reason why we fell so many points behind Livarpool last season.

We need to find out why we are always coming up short in the second half of matches. If Wolves had far to many chances and could have won the match quite easily but for very poor finishing. If this continues all the way to the end of the season, we will once again fall short of being champions. Livarpool, Chelsea and Arsenal have all strengthened their teams while Pep seems to think that we don't need to do this. With the transfer window closing next Monday, we still need another striker, a defensive mid-fielder and another centre back. if these are not coming in it will be a very hard and long season.
Click to expand...
Yawn.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Assuming all was equal in skill & intelligence & all round ability, then the fitter & more mobile the midfield, the more effective the attack & defence will be.

Then if the midfielders happen to be fitter, faster, & also better at tackling, better at creating, better at scoring, the team improves way beyond.

We are one of the best teams in history & we rely on Gundogan, Rodri & Fernandinho, who between them lack many of those characteristics.

There is absolutely no argument for not replacing all of them, apart from finding the right players.
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I dont follow the logic, over the last 3 years we have been one of the best teams in the world with those three midfielders but yet there is no argument that they need replacing?
 
EdersonsSmiley said:
I dont follow the logic, over the last 3 years we have been one of the best teams in the world with those three midfielders but yet there is no argument that they need replacing?
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We won the League Cup last season & got our arses kicked in the other 3. Prior to that we had Vincent Kompany.

There is no argument that we wouldn't be better, if we had midfielders who fill the criteria I mentioned.

We may be good enough to win stuff anyway.

There isn't even an argument that we wouldn't be better with the Dortmund Gundogan pre injury & Fernandinho 3 years younger.
 
Fame Monster said:
Not a fan personally.

We gave up the 4-3-3 when that was never the problem. We benched Sane when that was never the problem.

The only problem we had was selecting Gundogan, who was one sideways passer too many, in our team, especially when he played alongside David Silva.
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Brilliant post and completely agree. For a great coach I don't understand why Pep kept benching sane. Sane was pivotal to our PL success and many Liverpool fans rate him as one of 2 city players they were scared of. And his fascination for the sideways and backwards passer is baffling to say the least
 
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