Dynamo Kiev - Post Match Thread

[Lancet Fluke]

Whether anyone goes or not is a good method of judging how true a fan is but not necessarily conclusive. People typing on a phone either in or just leaving a ground is beyond my ken. Why would anyone want to do that walking in a crowd in the dark, even leaving out the physical difficulties in doing it? Please do not ever do that in front of me as I am in a hurry to get home or you might just get an ankle tap to remind you of the folly of your selfish ways.

Would you consider watching a documentary about Spain a substitute for going on holiday? That's what the armchair brigade do although I am not sure if they flock to post on the internet after watching in the same way. And worse it seems that those who watch BT find themselves absorbing the views of Scholes Ferdinand etc.

You are very supportive of TVs and phones. Do you have shares in electronic companies?

I am very supportive of TVs and phones? Seriously, what are you going on about? You were as far as I am aware agreeing with someone who didn't go to the game, yet you were being disparaging about people who have a different view from you by implying they mustn't have gone to the game (at least one other poster who has a different view from you has told you they went last night as well in response to your armchair brigade comment). Does that not tell you something? That whether you go or not does not necessarily completely shape your opinion on what is going on or make people's opinions automatically more or less valid? My son couldn't go last night so I took a mate who doesn't follow football that much and doesn't know much about it at all. Is his opinion on last night more valid than a seasoned blue who watched it on TV? I think you know it isn't. I didn't go to the Norwich match, I watched it on TV (aren't I a huge twat/supporter of TVs) but I did go last night, surprisingly enough I feel entitled to have an opinion on both matches. Presumably you think I only have a valid opinion on one of the matches? Anyway, I'm not getting sucked any further into this who is a bigger blue and whose opinion counts more bollocks, that's your bag, I just happen to think all sorts of supporters are entitled to have their opinions respected, if you take that to automatically mean that I don't go to games then that's your business.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

That's a subjective preference though. How many goals have we conceded this season because our offside trap failed or the linesman made a bad call? I bet it's a fraction of the total number of goals we've conceded.

Well of course it a subjective preference. Don't most football opinions/discussions come down to that. It is only my opinion but I think we would be a better defensive unit if we didn't use the offside trap and I thought that even when we were winning the league with it as our chosen system. I don't like it on various levels and I think it causes us bigger problems than simply a goals conceded stat. I think as a whole we are nervous as a team defensively because of the chances we concede (Joe has had to make dozens of one on one saves this season) and I think opposition teams never feel out of games because of those chances. I know your argument that a goal keeper is there to make those saves and I totally accept that but I am convinced it gives teams a lift and the opposite for us in matches when he's having to pull off last ditch saves. I put a lot of that down to us using the offside trap. There was a time when we were so tight defensively in terms of giving away opportunities that we could go one up and you could see the other team "shrink" and look beaten. That was a great thing to have, made winning matches a much more comfortable exercise. Nowadays we can be a couple of goals up and I still think teams really fancy it because they are always one bad linesman's decision or one slightly wonky offside line away from another one on one.

 

[BillyShears]

Well of course it a subjective preference. Don't most football opinions/discussions come down to that. It is only my opinion but I think we would be a better defensive unit if we didn't use the offside trap and I thought that even when we were winning the league with it as our chosen system. I don't like it on various levels and I think it causes us bigger problems than simply a goals conceded stat. I think as a whole we are nervous as a team defensively because of the chances we concede (Joe has had to make dozens of one on one saves this season) and I think opposition teams never feel out of games because of those chances. I know your argument that a goal keeper is there to make those saves and I totally accept that but I am convinced it gives teams a lift and the opposite for us in matches when he's having to pull off last ditch saves. I put a lot of that down to us using the offside trap. There was a time when we were so tight defensively in terms of giving away opportunities that we could go one up and you could see the other team "shrink" and look beaten. That was a great thing to have, made winning matches a much more comfortable exercise. Nowadays we can be a couple of goals up and I still think teams really fancy it because they are always one bad linesman's decision or one slightly wonky offside line away from another one on one.

I think fundamentally we disagree on the offside trap thing, no bother. Our issues for me have been the braindead nature of Otamendi and Mangala when they come charging out of the back line rather than when they're playing the offside trap.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

I think fundamentally we disagree on the offside trap thing, no bother. Our issues for me have been the braindead nature of Otamendi and Mangala when they come charging out of the back line rather than when they're playing the offside trap.

Well I would say they don't need to be charging out and diving in as well and I was saying that too even when we won the title under Pellegrini. I think over the last few years we have lost the art of some pretty basic stuff defensively. Like just standing in front of people which is amazingly effective in the Premier League and opponents tend to give you the ball back fairly quickly if you do. Everything we do defensively tends to look high risk for low benefits to me. I know we disagree on it though.

 

[domalino]

Stop slavering and have a day off, have a look at how many minutes Raheem has played in games.

IF you bothered to read my comment before replying, you'd know he's played more minutes than any outfield players except Yaya, Fernandinho and Sagna

 

[GaudinoMotors]

I could use stronger words than negativity but after a couple of hours defending myself and my team after a good and historic result I am fading a bit. If I had got home in time and gone in a pub where the rag fans would have been less critical of City and of course would not been given the abuse one gets on here from 'the armchair brigade keyboard warriors'.

Thank you for your wishing me a 'stay of execution'. After putting my sons through decade of City crap the best part of the first league win was to see their joy in us winning. I want to be around to see them joyful as City lift that CL trophy as much as I despise UEFA. In fact because I despise UEFA.

I can see you're a well meaning poster, who, like me in the past, has got a bit too involved and taken it too personally. I'd like to think nobody is attacking you, just taking issue with your comments. Likewise saying things like "defending my team" kind of suggests those disagreeing are somehow removed from that.
Long life to you and here's to that CL Trophy! We all want the same things just voice, express and deal with things differently.

 

[moenchengladbach blau]

I am very supportive of TVs and phones? Seriously, what are you going on about? You were as far as I am aware agreeing with someone who didn't go to the game, yet you were being disparaging about people who have a different view from you by implying they mustn't have gone to the game (at least one other poster who has a different view from you has told you they went last night as well in response to your armchair brigade comment). Does that not tell you something? That whether you go or not does not necessarily completely shape your opinion on what is going on or make people's opinions automatically more or less valid? My son couldn't go last night so I took a mate who doesn't follow football that much and doesn't know much about it at all. Is his opinion on last night more valid than a seasoned blue who watched it on TV? I think you know it isn't. I didn't go to the Norwich match, I watched it on TV (aren't I a huge twat/supporter of TVs) but I did go last night, surprisingly enough I feel entitled to have an opinion on both matches. Presumably you think I only have a valid opinion on one of the matches? Anyway, I'm not getting sucked any further into this who is a bigger blue and whose opinion counts more bollocks, that's your bag, I just happen to think all sorts of supporters are entitled to have their opinions respected, if you take that to automatically mean that I don't go to games then that's your business.

Your posts are like reading James Joyce with a touch of Welsh miserableness thrown it. I will therefore be brief and to the point.

I cannot understand those who favour TV matches ahead of actually going and then pontificate to those who do go. Perhaps it is some sort of guilt feeling but as I said it is something I do not understand from someone who does claim to go. It is like someone watching a clip of Glastonbury on TV and then telling people who were there how good/bad it was.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Your posts are like reading James Joyce with a touch of Welsh miserableness thrown it. I will therefore be brief and to the point.

I cannot understand those who favour TV matches ahead of actually going and then pontificate to those who do go. Perhaps it is some sort of guilt feeling but as I said it is something I do not understand from someone who does claim to go. It is like someone watching a clip of Glastonbury on TV and then telling people who were there how good/bad it was.

Good grief, nobody is pontificating to those who went, they are just voicing an opinion on a match they saw on the TV. As long as you realise that you were wholeheartedly agreeing with someone who I am fairly sure didn't go and trying to take the piss out of someone who did. To be honest, I think you are being hugely disingenuous, this has nothing to do with people attending or not and everything to do with you not liking opinions that contradict yours. I am not Welsh by the way and take great exception to any implication that I am ;). I don't think my post is miserable in the slightest, and funnily enough if you read my original post about last night I said I thought we strolled the match deliberately (ie managed the game) but you weren't interested in that, you were too busy trying to be snide about whether I went or not, a prediction that you got hopelessly wrong. Interesting that you see my explanation that I am more open to other people's views than you as miserable though. I think your attitude towards other supporters' opinions is really fucking miserable.

 

[moenchengladbach blau]

I can see you're a well meaning poster, who, like me in the past, has got a bit too involved and taken it too personally. I'd like to think nobody is attacking you, just taking issue with your comments. Likewise saying things like "defending my team" kind of suggests those disagreeing are somehow removed from that.
Long life to you and here's to that CL Trophy! We all want the same things just voice, express and deal with things differently.

Yes mum;-)

I choose my words carefully on here, less so in the real world and hardly at all after a few pints. 'Defending my team' was meant as a reminder of what we are all about. City fans and Mancunians have been moaning about their teams for a long time. Let's defend them against outsiders not ourselves.

All this started after a good result, if a not so good match, listening to various criticisms on the radio, Radio 5 and then Talkshite to find that not only were people having a go at City even more than the TS presenters but were also having a personal go at City fans who were saying 'never mind the quality feel the next round'. and then this morning it continued in more personal fashion and as you say it is easy to become too involved. But that's how football gets you. And of course it is human nature to stick up for those similar to yourself, especially when there is perceived ganging up/bullying.

Roll on tonight for City to be the only English team remaining, tomorrow for the rags to be knocked out, Friday for a good draw and Sunday for a bloody good win.

And then peace might break out on here.

 

[Manc in London]

Navas was great in the second half.

Our perceptions of 'great' differ. He did well on two occasions in the second half (the pull back and the shot), plus the shift he put in. His passing was poor in both halves. To be fair to him, he never hid.