EDL Clashing with the police in London

[dazdon]

they're not very pleasant that's for sure

but they're not murdering and beheading people in the street

there's a far more serious threat in our midst than the EDL

That's painfully insightful although it's obvious some posters don't want to see the Elephant in the room you so eloquently pointed out Balti.

It's quite simple.

I don't like terrorists and I don't like hooliganism.

Why is it so hard for right wing people to realise that you don't need to pick sides, this isn't goodies and baddies.

I'm more than capable of disliking both.

To be honest, the relish and glee the right wing are currently showing is somewhat stomach churning.

I can't stand the EDL but I wouldn't compare them to nutters who cut peoples heads off.

That's being fair isn't it?

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I can't stand the EDL but I wouldn't compare them to nutters who cut peoples heads off.

That's being fair isn't it?

They're certainly not as violent but they're still extremists with dangerous views.

The fact that the extremist Muslims are more extreme doesn't excuse the EDL.

The end result is the same, both want to create a culture of violence and fear.

 

[dazdon]

One ideology flies planes into buildings and cuts peoples heads off.

The other gets pissed and sings a few songs and smashes a few windows.

They are not the same and the comparison doesn't sit well.

The EDL are nobheads.

Islamic fundies are out and out killers.

 

[Aguero_Element]

i dont even wanna waste my time with this thread but remember, you are all thick

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

One ideology flies planes into buildings and cuts peoples heads off.

The other gets pissed and sings a few songs and smashes a few windows.

They are not the same and the comparison doesn't sit well.

The EDL are nobheads.

Islamic fundies are out and out killers.

There's nothing to be gained from judging which is worse.

Both are wrong.

That's all I'm saying.

A lot of people seem to think you need to pick a side and that's a dangerous way of viewing things.

I have nothing in common with either party.

 

[Why Always Ste]

Nothing is going to change from all this shit, so why do they bother?

Untill the working class people of this country Unite and protest, nothing will change.

The real issue is sustainable employment and the lack of it.

This won't be sorted out by having a few scraps amongst Whites and Muslims

 

[tidyman]

People might casually use the term, they're both as bad as each other. But I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting singing rascist songs and hurling a few pint pots at passing Asians is on a par with chopping someone's head off or flying a plane in to a building.

But it isn't a contest. By condemning the EDL, you are not automatically condoning the people they see as their enemy.

There are people on here openly talking about the EDL as some sort of heroes in shining armour who are at least "doing something about it."

By pointing out to these people that they are fucking idiots supporting a group of even stupider fucking idiots is not in any way condoning real terrorists.

 

[Southbanken]

I abhor racism. It's disgusting. But the EDL's numbers are rising because all our politicians are pussy footing around the fact that their is a problem with Islamic extremism in this country. People see the EDL as the only ones wiling to do anything about it. I doubt that even 10% of the EDL are actually racist. They have many black/Hindu/Jewish/Sikh etc members. Disgusting actions like these will turn moderate thinking people into the arms of the EDL.

So tell me, what solutions are they actually offering to combat Islamic extremism that the government are not?

Because all I can see is a load of skin-heads trying to burn down mosques and somehow I don't think that's going to help.

The only way to combat their extremist element is to extend the hand of friendship to the sensible ones and work with the practitioners of the religion to weed out these individuals. I hate to break it to you but they aren't going to go away if we start throwing out Muslims and denigrating them as the EDL would have us do. In fact, believe it or not, that's exactly how these things spiral out of control.

Very good. You and a few others on the thread have strengthened my faith in The Cellar.

Just waiting for somebody to come back on the bold but and explain how it can help. Surely they must think it will help otherwise they would not be wasting their time......

Is there any large scale organisation or charity or movement that targets this as their goal. Watching that Luton documentary yesterday was really interesting. Surely the leaders of the moderate parts in all religions (and non religions) should be actively promoting the understanding and acceptance of all others of various beliefs. There is clearly not enough done to encourage if not integration then at least understanding and tolerance.

 

[bluehousemusic]

how old would van gogh be now?

160 according to Wiki.

fuckin' hell
he should definitely have worn that ballie!

did he paint muslamic rayguns?

Van Gogh was a critic of religion and was murdered in Holland a few years ago. Dumb as he is with the Salman Rushdie, there is more than one famous Van Gogh to have lived on beautiful planet earth.

 

[jma]

People might casually use the term, they're both as bad as each other. But I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting singing rascist songs and hurling a few pint pots at passing Asians is on a par with chopping someone's head off or flying a plane in to a building.

But it isn't a contest. By condemning the EDL, you are not automatically condoning the people they see as their enemy.

There are people on here openly talking about the EDL as some sort of heroes in shining armour who are at least "doing something about it."

By pointing out to these people that they are fucking idiots supporting a group of even stupider fucking idiots is not in any way condoning real terrorists.

I will use the term 'they are both as bad as each other about Islamic fundamentalist and EDL supporters' and here's why.

You (actually, I don't think you are actually saying this), or others making the point, seem to think that the isolated actions of each of them are the only impact that they have. But if that were the case there wouldn't be terrorism and there would be far right 'hate' groups (not just now, but throughout history).

The real issue is what they stand for, who they influence and the issues they create through their actions.

You are right, there is no real comparison regarding the physical acts that they get up to. One 'side' is murder and 'one' is (mostly) 'just' hate at present.

However, I would imagine that Islamic extremists, given that their atrocities are committed by a handful of people, find genuine support amongst a very small percentage of the population (both the general population and the Islamic population). Their acts are so extreme and vicious that it is obviously to all but the extremely disturbed that they are full of hate, misguided and wrong. Their will also be some sympathisers to such causes and they only have to influence one genuine nutter every five years for such acts to continue but there will be relatively few people who don't see them as complete morons and disgusting.

The EDL on the other hand, whilst not committing such terrible acts, have a far more perverse and sickening impact on the general population. For proof of that, see the amount of people on here who are always desperate to pop their head up and talk of them as 'prepared to stand up' or give out crap like 'I don't support them but..............' (then going on to basically say that they think they will be proven to be correct or that they will become a major power).

The EDL is just as dangerous as Islamic fundamentalism in my view because of the influence that it has on, and this sounds arrogant, the thicker members of society. Before you jump all over the arrogance though, you don't have to go far back in history at all to find dozens of examples where gullible idiots have been agitated by disgraceful regimes to 'rise up' against the 'people who are the cause of all their problems' in their society. It's even easier when that taps in to the casual (and not so casual) racism and prejudice that many people hold anyway.

The idiots and those with long standing prejudices are the easiest to influence. But then such language and beliefs become gradually more mainstream and others pop up reflecting the same thing - either through pure exposure to such influence or because they are more emboldened to express dirty little beliefs they would have kept quiet in a normal society. That's how the spread, in the more extreme cases, of a far right culture works. Until, if they get their way, parts of society never previous having any interaction with that point of view see it as gaining prominence and as a 'norm'.

What is more dangerous? The threat of a horrific terrorist act every five years, slaughtering innocents? Or the growth of a national culture where hate and fear and persecution of a section of society is, if not seen as the norm, certainly not seen as anything to be ashamed of by those involved in such.

In terms of body count (at this stage of the development of a far right political culture, anyway), then - no contest - the terrorism wins hands down (although tell that to people in countries where a similar far right 'scapegoatism' has developed a few years further than the seeds of some nobs on a march). In terms of the threat to the every day fabric and tolerance of society and in terms of influencing a country to become like regimes we fought against not so long ago. It's a much tighter call.

Both are huge dangers to what we hold dear in this country and anyone supporting either - even verbally or, in the EDL's case, by proclaiming them to be some sort of 'natural reaction or 'having a point' on the internet - is a fucking disgrace.