Electric cars

[inbetween]

Record EV market share but weak private demand frustrates ambition - SMMT

The UK new car market recorded its second successive year of growth with 1,952,778 new cars reaching the road in 2024 – a rise of 2.6% on the previous year, according to...

www.smmt.co.uk

Still only 1 in 10 new ev car sales are to private buyers, according to this data which is the most up to date I can find.

This might be more reflective of the economy as private sales have fallen pretty much everywhere. The company I work for offers salary sacrifice leasing deals via a company called Arval and they're basically always offering EV's so fleet sales will propping everything up. I lease my EV so mine wouldn't fall as a private sale either.

Maybe people are actually just wising up to the fact that car ownership is actually a bit foolish and leasing makes more sense if the deal is good. I hate the thought of my inlaws who always buy on HP or with cash which is total madness. This has never been more true when you consider taxation as then the leasing company is responsible for the road tax.

Private buyers bought fewer new cars last year than Covid-hit 2020 | Autocar

Overall car sales did rise last year but were heavily propped up by fleets – sparking industry worry

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[tweety]

This might be more reflective of the economy as private sales have fallen pretty much everywhere. The company I work for offers salary sacrifice leasing deals via a company called Arval and they're basically always offering EV's so fleet sales will propping everything up. I lease my EV so mine wouldn't fall as a private sale either.

Maybe people are actually just wising up to the fact that car ownership is actually a bit foolish and leasing makes more sense if the deal is good. I hate the thought of my inlaws who always buy on HP or with cash which is total madness. This has never been more true when you consider taxation as then the leasing company is responsible for the road tax.

Private buyers bought fewer new cars last year than Covid-hit 2020 | Autocar

Overall car sales did rise last year but were heavily propped up by fleets – sparking industry worry

www.autocar.co.uk

When the lease is up, what happens to them? Private buyers are just not interested in electric cars and dealerships are wary of putting them on the books. A well looked after diesel or petrol car should last 20 years, that's not going to happen with electric. If the only way you can shift them is by using financial incentives then it won't end well for the consumer or the car industry.

 

[itsnevereasy]

When the lease is up, what happens to them? Private buyers are just not interested in electric cars and dealerships are wary of putting them on the books. A well looked after diesel or petrol car should last 20 years, that's not going to happen with electric. If the only way you can shift them is by using financial incentives then it won't end well for the consumer or the car industry.

How do you know an electric car won’t last 20 years?

And in general - not directed just at you - why is anyone that bothered about what makes someone’s car move? Does make me chuckle how angry some get about it. I drive an electric car, it is brilliant - but before that I drove a petrol car, that was brilliant as well. I had a diesel CMax once… that was shite - but I think that was because it was a Ford!

Electric, petrol, diesel… as long as you ain’t got to Fred Flintstone it - does it matter that much. Pick what suits you and crack on with life.

I did get called an electric car wanker once, I like my car but have never wanked over it… now where is that pic of Gail Platt…

 

[fulabeer]

A well looked after diesel or petrol car should last 20 years, that's not going to happen with electric.

That's a total myth with a modern Diesel/Petrol car. While the car itself would last that long, it's maintaining the many emission systems and complicated electronics that are their downfall. Eventually the costs don't make financial sense once the car has devalued. Good cars are being scrapped due to maintenance costs.

My current two diesels (car and van) spend way to much time at the garage. My 2017 1.6 DCi is around 80k miles and is fully serviced by Renault themselves. yet it's just one thing after another. This year alone it has had a Injector/Glow plugs/MAF/OG sensor. It has also had an full inlet/EGR clean. This week a plastic intercooler pipe has split. So the check engine light is back on FFS! Getting parts is already getting harder on an eight year old car, so i wait.
I got rid of my full main dealer serviced Audi SQ5 last year due to similar. I'm sticking with Audi as i like they way they drive, but it is being replaced with the new SQ6 EV.

EV's are already showing that the battery's are lasting way longer than first thought. Apart from a few "unmanaged" Nissan LEAF batteries, tens years seems to be the minimum they are lasting. Current battery tech is expected to see at least 15-20 years. Future tech, who knows?
Bit pointless anyway, cars as with other things are becoming throwaway items. TV's used to last 20 years. Now you are lucky to see five years. Saying that, TV's are dirt cheap and technology advances by the day. So who wants a TV to last 20 years anyway? (Mind you, some on here would argue Black and White TV's are superior!)

What in the past would have been a cheap ICE car to fix, is no longer the case. Even small faults can quickly run into hundreds of pounds, larger ones into the thousands. A modern car is built to eat itself from day one because of the EGR valve. The entire inlet clogs up no matter how well maintained/serviced. Plastic parts fail way too early.
Don't even start with "welt belt" engines.
Add in DFP/Cats, high pressure injectors, OG sensors. Timing chains are easily £2000+ on their own. (supposed to last 250k+, yet last around 100k)

The last "cheap" car i ran was a 2006 pre DPF Citroen C4. I needed a cheap stop gap while i found another car.
I paid £1500 for it with 107000 on the clock. The owner had already had done a cambelt/service and new brakes/tyres.
I planned on running it for about three months. I ended up keeping it for six years!
It simply ran and ran, without fault other than a new battery after three years. Even that was only due to the electric power steering demanding a perfect charge level. I sold it years ago, and it is still running. My mechanic uses it as a courtesy car. I doubt i would get that with a newer ULEZ ICE car, but sometimes people do get lucky.

The best value cars to buy are probably about 3 years old. (both ICE and EV)
New enough not to have any major faults, yet they have had their biggest depreciation drop.
Used EV mega deals are starting to dry up as people cotton on to the big value they are. The market is changing etc.

 

[tweety]

I've nothing against them and recently did a 100 mile trip in an electric Hyundai and it was superb. My point was that without the financial incentives most people would choose petrol or diesel. As for when they're out of warranty who'd want the liability of a battery replacement for £10k for instance.

 

[tweety]

That's a total myth with a modern Diesel/Petrol car. While the car itself would last that long, it's maintaining the many emission systems and complicated electronics that are their downfall. Eventually the costs don't make financial sense once the car has devalued. Good cars are being scrapped due to maintenance costs.

My current two diesels (car and van) spend way to much time at the garage. My 2017 1.6 DCi is around 80k miles and is fully serviced by Renault themselves. yet it's just one thing after another. This year alone it has had a Injector/Glow plugs/MAF/OG sensor. It has also had an full inlet/EGR clean. This week a plastic intercooler pipe has split. So the check engine light is back on FFS! Getting parts is already getting harder on an eight year old car, so i wait.
I got rid of my full main dealer serviced Audi SQ5 last year due to similar. I'm sticking with Audi as i like they way they drive, but it is being replaced with the new SQ6 EV.

EV's are already showing that the battery's are lasting way longer than first thought. Apart from a few "unmanaged" Nissan LEAF batteries, tens years seems to be the minimum they are lasting. Current battery tech is expected to see at least 15-20 years. Future tech, who knows?
Bit pointless anyway, cars as with other things are becoming throwaway items. TV's used to last 20 years. Now you are lucky to see five years. Saying that, TV's are dirt cheap and technology advances by the day. So who wants a TV to last 20 years anyway? (Mind you, some on here would argue Black and White TV's are superior!)

What in the past would have been a cheap ICE car to fix, is no longer the case. Even small faults can quickly run into hundreds of pounds, larger ones into the thousands. A modern car is built to eat itself from day one because of the EGR valve. The entire inlet clogs up no matter how well maintained/serviced. Plastic parts fail way too early.
Don't even start with "welt belt" engines.
Add in DFP/Cats, high pressure injectors, OG sensors. Timing chains are easily £2000+ on their own. (supposed to last 250k+, yet last around 100k)

The last "cheap" car i ran was a 2006 pre DPF Citroen C4. I needed a cheap stop gap while i found another car.
I paid £1500 for it with 107000 on the clock. The owner had already had done a cambelt/service and new brakes/tyres.
I planned on running it for about three months. I ended up keeping it for six years!
It simply ran and ran, without fault other than a new battery after three years. Even that was only due to the electric power steering demanding a perfect charge level. I sold it years ago, and it is still running. My mechanic uses it as a courtesy car. I doubt i would get that with a newer ULEZ ICE car, but sometimes people do get lucky.

The best value cars to buy are probably about 3 years old. (both ICE and EV)
New enough not to have any major faults, yet they have had their biggest depreciation drop.
Used EV mega deals are starting to dry up as people cotton on to the big value they are. The market is changing etc.

Your big mistake was buying French, their cars are shite. Certainly new cars are incredibly complex and are expensive to maintain. I'm sure that the manufacturers design the engine to fail when just out of warranty.
I'm looking to change my Prius soon, it's done over 300k miles without any issues. I'll be staying with Toyota as IMO they make the best cars.

 

[uweuweuwe]

Have taken the plunge after test driving a Renault scenic. it took me a while to stop thinking id stalled the car.

Just working out what charging apps I should be signing up to so any recommendations. will have octopus energy one as with them anyway, but there seems to be quite a few. Also ones for Ireland would be great, seeing as the wife just dropped it on me that we might be driving to Ireland later this year (Waterford and cork areas if that makes a difference).

 

[Pontypool Blue]

Have taken the plunge after test driving a Renault scenic. it took me a while to stop thinking id stalled the car.

Just working out what charging apps I should be signing up to so any recommendations. will have octopus energy one as with them anyway, but there seems to be quite a few. Also ones for Ireland would be great, seeing as the wife just dropped it on me that we might be driving to Ireland later this year (Waterford and cork areas if that makes a difference).

I use ZAP Maps as it has live data so you can see what is in use or empty and I like the filter options so you can choose superfast chargers only for example. Other apps available.
When you're on the road your car's infotainment system should be quite good for this too.
If you have octopus you should also get the octopus electroverse app because it gives you an 8% discount at all participating chargers and charges your electric bill at the end of the month not at point of contact.

 

[Always Ali]

I'm sort of tempted by an MG4

$33k which is 16.5k pounds drive away.

I do like my ICE Mitsubishi eclipse cross though.

Hmm can't decide. I have a driveway and only do shortish trips so savings would be big.

View attachment 163594

I've had mine, the SE Long Range, for around 3 weeks now. I absolutely love it, really solid, incredible acceleration (if you like that sort of thing), and fun to drive. A full charge will get you around 280 miles*

*minor complaint is the audible speed/lane warning sound. I haven't worked out how to silence it permanently....yet!

 

[crooky]

How do you know an electric car won’t last 20 years?

And in general - not directed just at you - why is anyone that bothered about what makes someone’s car move? Does make me chuckle how angry some get about it. I drive an electric car, it is brilliant - but before that I drove a petrol car, that was brilliant as well. I had a diesel CMax once… that was shite - but I think that was because it was a Ford!

Electric, petrol, diesel… as long as you ain’t got to Fred Flintstone it - does it matter that much. Pick what suits you and crack on with life.

I did get called an electric car wanker once, I like my car but have never wanked over it… now where is that pic of Gail Platt…

The problem is simply that to run an electric car in a reasonable manner also requires you be a homeowner as well.

It's a very high price of entry with the average house price being £290k and far over £300k if you exclude flats and terraced houses.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

This might be more reflective of the economy as private sales have fallen pretty much everywhere. The company I work for offers salary sacrifice leasing deals via a company called Arval and they're basically always offering EV's so fleet sales will propping everything up. I lease my EV so mine wouldn't fall as a private sale either.

Maybe people are actually just wising up to the fact that car ownership is actually a bit foolish and leasing makes more sense if the deal is good. I hate the thought of my inlaws who always buy on HP or with cash which is total madness. This has never been more true when you consider taxation as then the leasing company is responsible for the road tax.

Private buyers bought fewer new cars last year than Covid-hit 2020 | Autocar

Overall car sales did rise last year but were heavily propped up by fleets – sparking industry worry

www.autocar.co.uk

That may be true, but the fact that only 10% of new car sales to private buyers is pretty telling.

 

[remember arthur mann]

For Sale, one careful owner, no rust.

 

[1961_vintage]

*minor complaint is the audible speed/lane warning sound. I haven't worked out how to silence it permanently....yet!

I think you will have something called Driver Assistance which if set to Low, silences the audible alert. It resets back to default audible after every trip though.

 

[1961_vintage]

A well looked after diesel or petrol car should last 20 years, that's not going to happen with electric.

Why not?

 

[bluealf]

We are looking into getting a hybrid next, not sure I can fully commit to a full EV just yet.

 

[The Black Shed]

Your big mistake was buying French, their cars are shite. Certainly new cars are incredibly complex and are expensive to maintain. I'm sure that the manufacturers design the engine to fail when just out of warranty.
I'm looking to change my Prius soon, it's done over 300k miles without any issues. I'll be staying with Toyota as IMO they make the best cars.

Toyota are the world's biggest car manufacturer, never had one so can't make that judgement. I did own a Citroen though and the way the French make things so bloody awkward (simple change of a headlamp for instance), caused lacerations on the back of my hand and wrist. Where you think things should be, aren't.

Anyway I did read about a year ago that Toyota are in advanced r&d stage of developing battery technology to give 1000km of range. That would solve everybody's range anxiety in a heartbeat, but considering they only have one fully EV car in their range I think they're probably sitting on this battery revolution and then flood the market with a dozen new ev's for our delectation.

 

[Blue Since 76]

We are looking into getting a hybrid next, not sure I can fully commit to a full EV just yet.

If you can charge at home, they're a bit pointless. A heavy and expensive battery that is just dead weight on the motorway or beyond it's usable range and you've still got the issues of a petrol/diesel engine that needs servicing.

If you're not doing several hundred miles in every trip, or travelling through rural Wales or Scotland, a full electric should be fine. We've got an almost 5 year old electric and fully laden, in winter, it'll do 180 miles on the motorway easily and, frankly, my bladder won't do that, especially on UK motorways which are often busy. Just the loo at the services is a good 10 minutes, grab a coffee and it's more like 30. As ours is older, it won't charge faster than 75kw/hr, but even that would mean about 50% of the battery in 30 minutes, so another 90 miles in worst possible conditions. A more modern EV could double the charge speed, with some top of the range ones obliterating that.

I would have classed myself as a petrol head, but I can't imagine going back now. I miss the noise at times, but maybe getting old means I'd be buying a comfy car whatever the engine. Although a lottery win might see me in a Taycan...

 

[Bill Walker]

If you can charge at home, they're a bit pointless. A heavy and expensive battery that is just dead weight on the motorway or beyond it's usable range and you've still got the issues of a petrol/diesel engine that needs servicing.

Exactly why I'd never buy a hybrid. Dragging that heavy battery around everywhere. And in 6 or 7 years when it becomes less efficient, even worse.
Nobody wants a 6 years old hybrid.

 

[East Level 2]

Exactly why I'd never buy a hybrid. Dragging that heavy battery around everywhere. And in 6 or 7 years when it becomes less efficient, even worse.
Nobody wants a 6 years old hybrid.

My Ionic is seven years old and still runs well, and there are plenty of older hybrids running around the streets, mainly Prius with very high mileage.

 

[inbetween]

When the lease is up, what happens to them? Private buyers are just not interested in electric cars and dealerships are wary of putting them on the books. A well looked after diesel or petrol car should last 20 years, that's not going to happen with electric. If the only way you can shift them is by using financial incentives then it won't end well for the consumer or the car industry.

Private sales are reflective of general weariness because petrol private sales have fallen too. The entire market has fallen for the first time since COVID. I don't know why the goalposts are moved to judge EV's based upon used sales anyway because they've only been around for less than 10 years so there are less of them, it's just a silly argument.

Petrol cars have been around for nearly 100 years and aren't going to get better and there's a good argument that more recent cars are being built with planned obsolescence in mind. I also wouldn't trust any dealer because they make FAR more money from servicing cars than selling cars so EV's aren't going to be too high on their priority list.

When you say 'looked after' how many service and repair bills has that meant over 20 years and do you actually even have the same car? An EV has a significant advantage with maintenance because there is no engine, there is no gearbox, there is no engine oil and there aren't thousands of moving parts that can go wrong.

I therefore don't understand why an EV couldn't go for 20 years if a petrol can? It makes no sense given the more complicated car is the petrol. There is a UK Tesla Model S that has done 800,000 miles and that's an old tech car/battery nowadays. Good luck getting to 800,000 miles with a petrol no matter how well you look after it. 99% of petrols are on the scrapheap long before then