Yeah but doesn't he look calm and composed while under hitting that pass?
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Eliaquim Mangala
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Exeter Blue I am here
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How do you quantify it ? By watching him. It's not even difficult. Five paces forwards, look.around turn back, underhit pass to partner.
Also, if we're talking about Amsterdam, how about our 'ball playing' cbs at Celtic or Leicester etc ? Again, different rules for one compared to another.
Well you obviously 'watch' something different to me. Lescott never had to play in a defence anywhere near as exposed as City's under Pep in his entire career, never mind give and receive the ball under a ton of pressure as a matter of routine, so not 'different rules', just a bullshit comparison.
Lescott was a good old fashioned 4-4-2 defender, who liked to defend in and around his own box. In terms of what Pep wants however, Stones is way ahead of him and that's the rub, mistakes or no mistakes
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Exeter Blue I am here
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Don't recall him playing towards the end of the season? Pretty sure we went with Ota and Kompany and were defensively solid for a change?
Ha ha, good luck selling that. That upturn in solidity owed everything to Kompany and very little to Otamendi. Who's to say Stones wouldn't look good alongside Kompany too
Neville Kneville
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Yeah but doesn't he look calm and composed while under hitting that pass?
Absolutely. Like Paul Futcher.
Obviously Pep prefers the Stones type defender to a Lescott or Mangala, but I can't accept this notion that because Stones 'can' potentially knock the ball around, it automatically figures that he does & that when he makes an almighty arse of something, it's ok because it's Stones & he's going to be G.O.D. 'next year' (like Liverpool).
He was a liability quite often for Everton & it was supposed to be his breakthrough, taking him away from all those nasty defender types & working for Pep. But he was just the same & ended up out of our team as he did Everton's.
He may make the breakthrough this season & become World class. But so far, he is no great improvement on the Mangler & imo both would have been at a similar level last season as far as reliability goes.
Kompany is key to Stones making that leap imo. You can't coach out mistakes but the player can learn.
Neville Kneville
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Well you obviously 'watch' something different to me. Lescott never had to play in a defence anywhere near as exposed as City's under Pep in his entire career, never mind give and receive the ball under a ton of pressure as a matter of routine, so not 'different rules', just a bullshit comparison.
Lescott was a good old fashioned 4-4-2 defender, who liked to defend in and around his own box. In terms of what Pep wants however, Stones is way ahead of him and that's the rub.
Well I can't even remember who his last game was against but I guarantee if you watch him, you will see him do exactly what I said, & from the same position, in the time it takes Stones to thijk, Kompany will be pinging one touch passes to the attack.
Neville Kneville
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Well you obviously 'watch' something different to me. Lescott never had to play in a defence anywhere near as exposed as City's under Pep in his entire career, never mind give and receive the ball under a ton of pressure as a matter of routine, so not 'different rules', just a bullshit comparison.
Lescott was a good old fashioned 4-4-2 defender, who liked to defend in and around his own box. In terms of what Pep wants however, Stones is way ahead of him and that's the rub, mistakes or no mistakes
Also, no he isn't. He is about 10% better on the ball & 20% worse at everything else.
Also, no he isn't. He is about 10% better on the ball & 20% worse at everything else.
Whilst I agree he's not as good at defending as Lescott the idea that he's only marginally better on the ball is far-fetched. Lescott wasn't even close to being good enough on the ball for Mancini; Stones is good enough for Guardiola. He's a lot better on the ball.
Anyway this is the Mangala thread. Never had a problem with the guy, he just doesn't fit the system Guardiola's going for. He'll be good wherever he goes so I don't think we need to be selling him on the cheap.
Harsh on Lescott, he was at least twice the defender Stones currently is. Probably not half the passer either mind, he was pretty horrendous with anyone near himAlso, no he isn't. He is about 10% better on the ball & 20% worse at everything else.
Neville Kneville
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Whilst I agree he's not as good at defending as Lescott the idea that he's only marginally better on the ball is far-fetched. Lescott wasn't even close to being good enough on the ball for Mancini; Stones is good enough for Guardiola. He's a lot better on the ball.
Anyway this is the Mangala thread. Never had a problem with the guy, he just doesn't fit the system Guardiola's going for. He'll be good wherever he goes so I don't think we need to be selling him on the cheap.
But he isn't good enough for Pep, nowhere near.
The idea is he is supposed to become good enough. Right now, he just does what Lescott did, plays it safe, with an extra 10% of quality on top. Then gives a goal away.
Lescott had a reasonable passing record, he just didn't do anything expansive. Mangala imo could do the same, if his defensive capabilities were considered good enough.
Neville Kneville
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Harsh on Lescott, he was at least twice the defender Stones currently is. Probably not half the passer either mind, he was pretty horrendous with anyone near him
He was actually very decent at keeping possession , just limited in forward passing. The crowd was usually more concerned about what might happen with Lescott, than what actually happened. In this team, he would have much more options but I agree he is not the ideal player.
But right now, neither is Stones. He needs to become that right now imo. Not in two years.
Otherwise he is no real improvement on the Mangler or Otamendi.
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