Elon Musk

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FEC filings won’t include his Twitter investment which was one of the main vehicles for Trump propaganda.

Can you quantify this "investment"?

The easiest thing is to just admit to speaking with a reckless disregard for the truth when it is clearly demonstrated.

 

[west didsblue]

Can you quantify this "investment"?

The easiest thing is to just admit to speaking with a reckless disregard for the truth when it is clearly demonstrated.

It’s very easy to quantify the investment Musk made to purchase Twitter. It’s all in the public domain how much of his own wealth was used and much he borrowed. Feel free to google it. Not sure why it’s a reckless disregard for the truth when it’s clear to anyone who’s paid the slightest bit of attention that Twitter’s algorithms have been updated to bombard people with MAGA propaganda.

 

[Username Required]

It’s very easy to quantify the investment Musk made to purchase Twitter. It’s all in the public domain how much of his own wealth was used and much he borrowed. Feel free to google it. Not sure why it’s a reckless disregard for the truth when it’s clear to anyone who’s paid the slightest bit of attention that Twitter’s algorithms have been updated to bombard people with MAGA propaganda.

The claim: Elon Musk threw a few billion.
The fact: Elon Musk spent $277 million. Feel free to google it.
The goalpost moving: But but but Twitter investment & algorithms.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

The claim: Elon Musk threw a few billion.
The fact: Elon Musk spent $277 million. Feel free to google it.
The goalpost moving: But but but Twitter investment & algorithms.

Are you talking about what Musk spent to buy Twitter or what he contributed to the Trump campaign?

Think you are both talking at cross-purposes. He spent what he disclosed directly to the FEC but there’s probably some worth to be ascribed to monkeying with the algorithms too if you believe he did that. No way to quantify it though, plus if it resulted in him losing contributors that’s an additional future cost.

 

[meltonblue]

I've got one, best car I've ever driven. You shouldn't let politics worry you otherwise you wouldn't buy any car. The other car companies have probably done far worse to you I can guarantee that.

I've thrown my hat into two class actions against BMW after they allegedly cheated on diesel emissions and also seemingly missold me regarding the commission that the dealer got on brokering the finance.

Course you would buy another car. I couldn’t tell you the name of the CIO of any other car manufacturer, partly because they don’t own or are accountable for one of the biggest social media platforms and arent also throwing themselves fully into the public and political arena.

If you’d have said due to his political beliefs then I’d be inclined to agree. He’s gone a lot further than that though.

Personally I’ve binned Twitter off and don’t want to contribute to any company that I know is owned by an individual that’s now doing more damage to peddle misinformation than anyone else I can name due to the scale of his platform and also his own personal posts on there. I’m sure there’s plenty of others that would think similar.

Admittedly I wouldn’t buy one anyway, I did test drive one when I got my ev but it wasn’t for me, but each to their own on that.

 

[SSL2]

The issue I have with Tesla is its stock value is massively disconnected to its business performance. Any analysts will tell you its highly unlikely the company will ever make enough money from selling electric cars and other similar electric products to justify its share value. Its been hugely reliant on subsidy to get this far. Its excess value is based on claims around driverless cars and other similar automation. I just don't think they are anywhere near close.

I take it you've not read up on Tesla & what they have in store for 2025?

CyberCab & Optimus robot will be worth Billions alone in market cap and both will be rolled out next year. They have also basically cracked the code of FSD. Tesla is much more than an automaker and the stock market is finally realising that.

I personally feel that the current stock price of $425 is undervalued when you consider what is in the pipeline. Musk is a clown yes, but when you look at what is coming for Tesla I wouldn't be surprised to see the stock double by this time next year. Happy for you to bookmark this and revisit in a year.

 

[inbetween]

Course you would buy another car. I couldn’t tell you the name of the CIO of any other car manufacturer, partly because they don’t own or are accountable for one of the biggest social media platforms and arent also throwing themselves fully into the public and political arena.

If you’d have said due to his political beliefs then I’d be inclined to agree. He’s gone a lot further than that though.

Personally I’ve binned Twitter off and don’t want to contribute to any company that I know is owned by an individual that’s now doing more damage to peddle misinformation than anyone else I can name due to the scale of his platform and also his own personal posts on there. I’m sure there’s plenty of others that would think similar.

Admittedly I wouldn’t buy one anyway, I did test drive one when I got my ev but it wasn’t for me, but each to their own on that.

Musk is just a relatively vocal and outlandish character. He's probably a bit more similar to how Steve Jobs was, brilliant in his own way but eccentric and an utter bastard in others. Jobs didn't even participate in the invention of most Apple products and yet without him there is no way that Apple would be the company that it is now.

He is a twat but most CEOs are and you don't get to such a position if you aren't a twat sometimes. Imagine what it would be like to work with somebody like Pep everyday, I bet it's a bloody nightmare.

I was a big Musk fan because I like people who achieve things against the status quo and we need more people like that. I certainly don't see any benefit to maintaining the status quo which is the car or space market will instead get decided by blank corporations who only see profit. Our political system also wholly supports that status quo and people are now challenging it.

I do however indeed totally disagree with what he's done to X/Twitter but that's fine. It should really be possible to disagree with someone without needing to subsequently burn everything else that person has ever done or will do.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Musk is just a relatively vocal and outlandish character. He's probably a bit more similar to how Steve Jobs was, brilliant in his own way but eccentric and an utter bastard in others. Jobs didn't even participate in the invention of most Apple products and yet without him there is no way that Apple would be the company that it is now.

He is a twat but most CEOs are and you don't get to such a position if you aren't a twat sometimes. Imagine what it would be like to work with somebody like Pep everyday, I bet it's a bloody nightmare.

I was a big Musk fan because I like people who achieve things against the status quo and we need more people like that. I certainly don't see any benefit to maintaining the status quo which is the car or space market will instead get decided by blank corporations who only see profit. Our political system also wholly supports that status quo and people are now challenging it.

I do however indeed totally disagree with what he's done to X/Twitter but that's fine. It should really be possible to disagree with someone without needing to subsequently burn everything else that person has ever done or will do.

You make some fair and valid points and I’ve always held an admiration for Musk in what he has done with Tesla/Space X etc and is clearly a big drive in innovation for humanity…. BUT I just can’t forgive what he is doing politically, using the biggest social media platform to spread hate and disinformation off the scale - using it as a tool for Trump and Republicans to get into power and now about to do the same in the UK with Reform. It’s Evil shit.

 

[Irwell]

I take it you've not read up on Tesla & what they have in store for 2025?

CyberCab & Optimus robot will be worth Billions alone in market cap and both will be rolled out next year. They have also basically cracked the code of FSD. Tesla is much more than an automaker and the stock market is finally realising that.

I personally feel that the current stock price of $425 is undervalued when you consider what is in the pipeline. Musk is a clown yes, but when you look at what is coming for Tesla I wouldn't be surprised to see the stock double by this time next year. Happy for you to bookmark this and revisit in a year.

He collected hundreds of millions in payments for the new Roadster that was supposed to be delivered years ago, but there is still no sign of it. He has been promising full self driving next year for a number of years too, but he is actually behind other manufacturers in this space now. He claimed range figures for his HGV that were unrealistic and "demonstrated" it with a load a tenth of what an HGV usually carries.

The value of the company will probably double as you suggest, but because of the gullibility of people falling for his grifts rather than any track record of success.

Edit: I forgot his promised ROI on his self driving taxis that would make it pretty much the best investment opportunity in the world, outpacing the stock market by multiple orders of magnitude.

 

[SSL2]

He collected hundreds of millions in payments for the new Roadster that was supposed to be delivered years ago, but there is still no sign of it. He has been promising full self driving next year for a number of years too, but he is actually behind other manufacturers in this space now. He claimed range figures for his HGV that were unrealistic and "demonstrated" it with a load a tenth of what an HGV usually carries.

The value of the company will probably double as you suggest, but because of the gullibility of people falling for his grifts rather than any track record of success.

Edit: I forgot his promised ROI on his self driving taxis that would make it pretty much the best investment opportunity in the world, outpacing the stock market by multiple orders of magnitude.

Not sure to be honest - you make some points which are true but a lot of these are now coming to fruition albeit it slightly later than planned.

Your last point made will be live in Q1 2025. They have just rolled out FSD 13.0 to all Tesla employees and the results are extremely impressive. Once the mainstream traditional carmakers start purchasing this software and using it themselves then maybe people will start to realise

Maybe I'm blinkered as i've been a long term investor since 2018. But to say the stock will rise based off purely gullibility is just pure ignorance to what's going on/what they have in the pipeline.

 

[grunge]

I take it you've not read up on Tesla & what they have in store for 2025?

CyberCab & Optimus robot will be worth Billions alone in market cap and both will be rolled out next year. They have also basically cracked the code of FSD. Tesla is much more than an automaker and the stock market is finally realising that.

I personally feel that the current stock price of $425 is undervalued when you consider what is in the pipeline. Musk is a clown yes, but when you look at what is coming for Tesla I wouldn't be surprised to see the stock double by this time next year. Happy for you to bookmark this and revisit in a year.

Optimus Robot is currently lots of smoke and mirrors. Human controlled/assisted and still seemed pretty clunky at the event this year.

I think there's a long long way to go on that one. as with most software development, the last 10% is usually 90% of the time.

 

[SSL2]

Optimus Robot is currently lots of smoke and mirrors. Human controlled/assisted and still seemed pretty clunky at the event this year.

I think there's a long long way to go on that one. as with all software development, the last 10% is usually 90% of the time.

really?

 

[grunge]

really?

Yep. at the CyberCab event they were being human assisted.

Elon Musk's 'one weird trick' to get investors excited about Tesla's Optimus bots

Some were left disappointed by remote-controlled robots at Tesla's "We, Robot" demo

qz.com

if you think of it walking is one of the single base things a humanoid robot should do. Boston Dynamics had the same thing nearly a decade ago.

 

[inbetween]

You make some fair and valid points and I’ve always held an admiration for Musk in what he has done with Tesla/Space X etc and is clearly a big drive in innovation for humanity…. BUT I just can’t forgive what he is doing politically, using the biggest social media platform to spread hate and disinformation off the scale - using it as a tool for Trump and Republicans to get into power and now about to do the same in the UK with Reform. It’s Evil shit.

Trump isn't coming to power because of Musk or misinformation specifically. He's coming into power because of a fundamental problem with our politics, economics and political system which they have just taken advantage of. Musk is a greater tool because he controls a platform where people can say literally anything and unfortunately it isn't the platform at fault but rather the humans that use it.

Clearly something else is at play, maybe it's the fact that we now live in a globalist world and people are getting less of the pie which instead is going to the rich? Trump isn't the solution to that by any stretch but he's certainly the only outlet on offer where the public can stick two fingers up to the rest of the political elite.

You only have to look at Kamala Harris' campaign who had such a policy vacuum that she resorted to putting billionaire celebrities on stage to try and sway the stupids. I mean nothing gets the message across on your policy on ending poverty than a few words from Beyonce right? It couldn't be more ironic and it fully sums it up.

 

[SSL2]

Yep. at the CyberCab event they were being human assisted.

Elon Musk's 'one weird trick' to get investors excited about Tesla's Optimus bots

Some were left disappointed by remote-controlled robots at Tesla's "We, Robot" demo

qz.com

if you think of it walking is one of the single base things a humanoid robot should do. Boston Dynamics had the same thing nearly a decade ago.

Yes that's true at the Cybercab event, but two months later there is evidently more progress as shown in that video.

& I understand there is a lot more to it than walking, obviously.

But I think a lot on here are blinkered due to musk being a well known tool. If you put that aside & appreciate the projects they are working on, there is a small fortune to be made if you are into investing.

I may be wasting my time saying that in this thread, though.

 

[grunge]

Yes that's true at the Cybercab event, but two months later there is evidently more progress as shown in that video.

& I understand there is a lot more to it than walking, obviously.

But I think a lot on here are blinkered due to musk being a well known tool. If you put that aside & appreciate the projects they are working on, there is a small fortune to be made if you are into investing.

I may be wasting my time saying that in this thread, though.

I’m a massive fan of SpaceX so I’m not blinkered to what his businesses can do. I’m just very aware he makes fantastical claims, some work, lots don’t.

The robot having to use smoke and mirrors from day one to even try to compete with competitors says to me what needs to be known about this one.

His dark horse project is the Boring company. Loads of contracts to create maintenance tunnels rather then moving traffic underground like the plan was.

 

[Irwell]

I’m a massive fan of SpaceX so I’m not blinkered to what his businesses can do. I’m just very aware he makes fantastical claims, some work, lots don’t.

That was the point I was getting at. There are a lot of fantastical claims and I think the share value to an extent reflects some elements of the market taking those claims at face value.

I'm thinking of things like the crowd cheering as he showed one of his trucks towing a load that your average pickup in the States could carry.

I've no doubt they will deliver some of the products they announce and there are profits to be made, but I think some are fanciful. To take the taxis as an example. I don't think their self driving tech is truly self driving yet, I think most countries will take years for regulation to catch up anyway and I don't think even when rolled out the ROI will live up to the suggestions in the marketing.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Trump isn't coming to power because of Musk or misinformation specifically. He's coming into power because of a fundamental problem with our politics, economics and political system which they have just taken advantage of. Musk is a greater tool because he controls a platform where people can say literally anything and unfortunately it isn't the platform at fault but rather the humans that use it.

Clearly something else is at play, maybe it's the fact that we now live in a globalist world and people are getting less of the pie which instead is going to the rich? Trump isn't the solution to that by any stretch but he's certainly the only outlet on offer where the public can stick two fingers up to the rest of the political elite.

You only have to look at Kamala Harris' campaign who had such a policy vacuum that she resorted to putting billionaire celebrities on stage to try and sway the stupids. I mean nothing gets the message across on your policy on ending poverty than a few words from Beyonce right? It couldn't be more ironic and it fully sums it up.

Trump IS coming to power via misinformation specifically, which renders the rest of this post largely irrelevant.

If you don’t think this, merely ask his supporters what they believe to be true.

That said, I do love the line about globalism and wealth inequality as if this is a problem that suddenly cropped up in the last decade, lol.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Trump isn't coming to power because of Musk or misinformation specifically. He's coming into power because of a fundamental problem with our politics, economics and political system which they have just taken advantage of. Musk is a greater tool because he controls a platform where people can say literally anything and unfortunately it isn't the platform at fault but rather the humans that use it.

Clearly something else is at play, maybe it's the fact that we now live in a globalist world and people are getting less of the pie which instead is going to the rich? Trump isn't the solution to that by any stretch but he's certainly the only outlet on offer where the public can stick two fingers up to the rest of the political elite.

You only have to look at Kamala Harris' campaign who had such a policy vacuum that she resorted to putting billionaire celebrities on stage to try and sway the stupids. I mean nothing gets the message across on your policy on ending poverty than a few words from Beyonce right? It couldn't be more ironic and it fully sums it up.

I fundamentally believe in the exact opposite of everything you mention.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Trump IS coming to power via misinformation specifically, which renders the rest of this post largely irrelevant.

If you don’t think this, merely ask his supporters what they believe to be true.

That said, I do love the line about globalism and wealth inequality as if this is a problem that suddenly cropped up in the last decade, lol.

It popped up more since 2008. Prior to that asset prices weren't so inflated and even if they were cheap credit or credit that could be renewed were easier to get.

Misinformation isn't he sole reason fof Trump's rise to power. It certainly helped though.

The Democratic party being a basketcase didn't help things. If they had embraced Bernie Sanders during his first or second run then it might have been a different story. Rather than relying on Hilary and Hilary 2.0 and their own cognitively fragile nepotist.