Elon Musk

[BrianW]

Brian, you might aswell leave the UK, you think we are truly fucked as a country with no hope. But where would you go?

Like I said it's a long haul. There are no magic solutions. What part of that do you not understand?

I am too old and too fucked to go anywhere. But if I were younger, I'll you where I wouldn't go. The USofA. Unless I was a selfish billionaire. Then I might think about it.

If I were younger and had good language skills, I'd be tempted by Scandinavia. They are closest to my ideal social system and have not, so far, succumbed to the disastrous (so-called) free market, low taxation delusion that appeals to so many in this country. The snag is, thanks to fucking Brexit, I'd need a visa.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Good point, perhaps ask yourself why he got back in. All im saying is there is a reason why he got back in. And that reason is mostly the economy.

Elon Musk, disinformation, lies, hatred and being a con artist are the main reasons.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Like I said it's a long haul. There are no magic solutions. What part of that do you not understand?

I am too old and too fucked to go anywhere. But if I were younger, I'll you where I wouldn't go. The USofA. Unless I was a selfish billionaire. Then I might think about it.

If I were younger and had good language skills, I'd be tempted by Scandinavia. They are closest to my ideal social system and have not, so far, succumbed to the disastrous (so-called) free market, low taxation delusion that appeals to so many in this country. The snag is, thanks to fucking Brexit, I'd need a visa.

I never questioned your point about it being a long haul, i agree entirely things will take time to improve. I questioned your damming assessment of the UK you posted 2 or 3 days back. It struck me that you weren't aware of the situation in many other countries if you thought the UK was that bad, as clearly it is not.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Elon Musk, disinformation, lies, hatred and being a con artist are the main reasons.

I don't think this is a major factor. The yanks i have spoken to since the election who voted Trump all said the economy was the main reason. Some even said they voted Trump even tho he was a vile human . Lol ans they just wished he keep off social media. You can't just put his popularity down to just social media and voters ignorance.
By the way, I'm no fan of his at all and can't stand Musk. The latter I despise, it is good to see the PM taking him down a peg or two this morning.

 

[yerwot?]

fundamentally, democracy is the number one target of unrestricted, rampant capitalism. A fairly rewarded, healthy and well-educated populace is absolutely the last thing they want, and nothing will change that. Pointing out the misery and deprivation of millions is music to the ears of far right supporters and benefactors, musk and trump being just the poster-boys for a cabal that goes back to the guilds behind the slave trade the royalty-backed piracy of the 1600 hundreds. The embedded "entitlement" given to the earls and dukes who helped the norman conquerors to overthrow harold is still intact, still own immense amounts of land, have influence over millions of tenants and the armed forces and the judiciary, and the church of england. Manipulating the inherent prejudices of human nature is an ancient tactic, "make your enemy the enemy of the people" by any means necessary, from town criers to newspapers and digital .

 

[BrianW]

I never questioned your point about it being a long haul, i agree entirely things will take time to improve. I questioned your damming assessment of the UK you posted 2 or 3 days back. It struck me that you weren't aware of the situation in many other countries if you thought the UK was that bad, as clearly it is not.

Frankly, I don't give a fuck about how well or badly other countries are doing. The fact the guy next door can't pay his mortgage does not make me any richer.

However, this country has unique issues with productivity and investment, going back decades. Until we sort that out, we're going nowhere. And it's not easy, as I can remember Harold Wilson and Ted Heath banging on about these things before many readers of this were even born. No government, so far, has solved these issues.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I don't keep saying this to him. I have said why don't you leave once. Previously I pointed out that things are nowhere near as bad as Brian makes out. He never came back to me. I know you like to police the forum but you need to get your facts right before doing so.

My fact was correct, thank you.

I’ll leave the rest. It’s not worth my time.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

My fact was correct, thank you.

I’ll leave the rest. It’s not worth my time.

Glad to hear it.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Frankly, I don't give a fuck about how well or badly other countries are doing. The fact the guy next door can't pay his mortgage does not make me any richer.

However, this country has unique issues with productivity and investment, going back decades. Until we sort that out, we're going nowhere. And it's not easy, as I can remember Harold Wilson and Ted Heath banging on about these things before many readers of this were even born. No government, so far, has solved these issues.

One of the biggest scams going is tax credits subsidising wages for big businesses. We could lower the welfare budget by 40% by making businesses pay the going rates.

People tend to use fruit picking wages as the issue rather than the tax credit issue, which is far more costly.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Frankly, I don't give a fuck about how well or badly other countries are doing. The fact the guy next door can't pay his mortgage does not make me any richer.

However, this country has unique issues with productivity and investment, going back decades. Until we sort that out, we're going nowhere. And it's not easy, as I can remember Harold Wilson and Ted Heath banging on about these things before many readers of this were even born. No government, so far, has solved these issues.

Well if you were aware of other countries perhaps you wouldn't be so damming about the UK. It's good to worldly wise and to have travelled, it gives you perspective on important issues. Sure things need to improve and hopefully they will.

 

[BrianW]

I'm not naive enough to think any country is perfect. They all have their own unique issues.

Britain is in a particularly bad place, due largely to the follies of our politicians and the ignorance of our voters. I fear that if we are not careful, we shall end up in a far worse place. Because we have here a greedy capitalist clique with only one interest - self enrichment They do not give a flying one for the welfare of the general public, or the good of the country. They just want to increase what is already an obscene share of national wealth.

The only way forward - the only way that is good for 98% of us - is patience, persistence and a refusal to listen to magic bean salesmen who claim that we can sort everything by destroying public services and making the rich even richer. You may call that gloom. I call it realism.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

Returning the thread to the subject of Musk, even the haters (more of that later) must see him as a remarkable man, given what he’s achieved is just staggering. Starlink, Space X, Tesla, PayPal. (I’ve omitted Twitter) People like Musk change the world and his achievements speak for themselves. Is he likeable…no - not especially; although we mostly see him through the lens of the media (we know from their treatment of City you don’t always get a fair shake from those fuckers). The likes of Musk will do more for Climate Change than a thousand Gretas or Ed Millibands. He is a natural disruptive force of nature - and those people bring about change. Essential - given we’re supposed to be in a crisis.
He’s managed to garner hatred from the Never-Trumpers, UK Labour supporters, the Nigel Faragists, the thousands he fired at Twitter, the many more thousands likely to be fired in the US “State”, the Trans lobby…it’s a long and varied list. Great Leaders, be they in politics, in thought-leadership, industry, business and commerce, science are very rarely “nice” people - if people see them as nice, it’s usually down to either effective PR or simply lack of knowledge. There may be exceptions but I’d say not many. Ghandhi for example was believed to be a paedophile; Mother Theresa’s now thought to be a bit of a twat.
I don’t agree with everything Musk says by a very long chalk, but I do support free speech (within the boundaries of the law) and SOME of the things he says, need to be said. I don’t think he really believes Jess Phillips should go to gaol, it’s just hyperbole. I’m not going to support Tommy Robinson because Musk thinks he’s a “political prisoner” either. I’m not going to vote or not vote for Nigel Farage because of anything Musk says.
But I’m not a hater and I am in awe of his achievements, especially in space travel where he’s achieved so much in such a short time. Almost as much as the collection of Nazis (potentially-War Criminals) rounded up by the Yanks after the war and spirited them away to kick-start their space program.

 

[hcblue95]

The thing you miss is economically the US did very well under Trump. That's why he got elected again. Most US voters just ignore his twitter rants.

Have you got any evidence to back up your claim that economically the US did very well under Trump and that's why he got elected again?

 

[hilts]

Ostriches with their heads in the sand springs to mind, let's just carry on with the same two political parties who have run the country into the ground over decades.

You have a very good point there although a reform govt.is certainly not the answer.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Is he likeable…no - not especially; although we mostly see him through the lens of the media.

Great Leaders, be they in politics, in thought-leadership, industry, business and commerce, science are very rarely “nice” people - if people see them as nice, it’s usually down to either effective PR or simply lack of knowledge.

I really despise how moral failings are justified in this day and age by blaming the media and blithely rationaliz(s)ing that the great are rarely good.

And as usual, the words "venture capital boom" are never once included in a post about how he's accomplished what he has.

 

[ballbag]

I really despise how moral failings are justified in this day and age by blaming the media and blithely rationaliz(s)ing that the great are rarely good.

And as usual, the words "venture capital boom" are never once included in a post about how he's accomplished what he has.

No. It was all him and his awesome, superior brain. He came up with all of it.

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

I'm not naive enough to think any country is perfect. They all have their own unique issues.

Britain is in a particularly bad place, due largely to the follies of our politicians and the ignorance of our voters. I fear that if we are not careful, we shall end up in a far worse place. Because we have here a greedy capitalist clique with only one interest - self enrichment They do not give a flying one for the welfare of the general public, or the good of the country. They just want to increase what is already an obscene share of national wealth.

The only way forward - the only way that is good for 98% of us - is patience, persistence and a refusal to listen to magic bean salesmen who claim that we can sort everything by destroying public services and making the rich even richer. You may call that gloom. I call it realism.

Trouble is the public keep on voting in "a greedy capitalist clique with only one interest - self enrichment They do not give a flying one for the welfare of the general public, or the good of the country. They just want to increase what is already an obscene share of national wealth."

 

[hilts]

Like I said it's a long haul. There are no magic solutions. What part of that do you not understand?

I am too old and too fucked to go anywhere. But if I were younger, I'll you where I wouldn't go. The USofA. Unless I was a selfish billionaire. Then I might think about it.

If I were younger and had good language skills, I'd be tempted by Scandinavia. They are closest to my ideal social system and have not, so far, succumbed to the disastrous (so-called) free market, low taxation delusion that appeals to so many in this country. The snag is, thanks to fucking Brexit, I'd need a visa.

So you want people who have waited decades to wait more decades to get exactly the same result.

You would prefer a more scandavian model but think we should just give those unwilling to change time to.............

Not do it.

Genius

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

Returning the thread to the subject of Musk, even the haters (more of that later) must see him as a remarkable man, given what he’s achieved is just staggering. Starlink, Space X, Tesla, PayPal. (I’ve omitted Twitter) People like Musk change the world and his achievements speak for themselves. Is he likeable…no - not especially; although we mostly see him through the lens of the media (we know from their treatment of City you don’t always get a fair shake from those fuckers). The likes of Musk will do more for Climate Change than a thousand Gretas or Ed Millibands. He is a natural disruptive force of nature - and those people bring about change. Essential - given we’re supposed to be in a crisis.
He’s managed to garner hatred from the Never-Trumpers, UK Labour supporters, the Nigel Faragists, the thousands he fired at Twitter, the many more thousands likely to be fired in the US “State”, the Trans lobby…it’s a long and varied list. Great Leaders, be they in politics, in thought-leadership, industry, business and commerce, science are very rarely “nice” people - if people see them as nice, it’s usually down to either effective PR or simply lack of knowledge. There may be exceptions but I’d say not many. Ghandhi for example was believed to be a paedophile; Mother Theresa’s now thought to be a bit of a twat.
I don’t agree with everything Musk says by a very long chalk, but I do support free speech (within the boundaries of the law) and SOME of the things he says, need to be said. I don’t think he really believes Jess Phillips should go to gaol, it’s just hyperbole. I’m not going to support Tommy Robinson because Musk thinks he’s a “political prisoner” either. I’m not going to vote or not vote for Nigel Farage because of anything Musk says.
But I’m not a hater and I am in awe of his achievements, especially in space travel where he’s achieved so much in such a short time. Almost as much as the collection of Nazis (potentially-War Criminals) rounded up by the Yanks after the war and spirited them away to kick-start their space program.

what on earth has Musk achieved that has benefitted anyone except for himself and his cronies? Sure, he has created some jobs no doubt but so have many others. When you say "some of the things he says, need to be said" - no they don't I'm afraid. Because they are utter shit.

 

[west didsblue]

True, but not as good as Trump in the view of many Americans

Biden got the blame for inflation in 2022 which was a direct result of the pandemic and was a global phenomenon. It was much worse in the UK due to the incompetence of Johnson and Truss, however Biden didn’t get any credit for it being not as bad as in Britain and most other countries, just got the blame for a few staples like eggs being very expensive. The Republicans were much more effective at getting the message out that the high cost of living was Biden’s fault and things will be much better under them. And the dems failed to get the message out that the US was by far the best performing major economy in the world over the last 4 years.

Basing economic performance on people’s opinion is like basing who is the best football team on fans’ opinions without looking at the league table, and sadly far too many people aren’t objective and treat their political allegiance in the same way as how they decide which sports team to support.