England Thread - 2023/24

[ninjamonkey]

Waistcoat questioning Foden just shows exactly why he's the clueless fuck we all think he is and he probably doesn't even realise how stupid he makes himself sound saying what he's just said. "pep doesn't play him there, i dont know why, but I can't play him there either"

Foden doesn't have kdb, gundogan Bernardo silva, alvarez and others to contend with for a place at international level. He's got the now retired Jordan henderson, Connor Gallagher and James Maddison. It shouldnt even be a question
He starts amongst that pool of players and is the focal point for any international side with a semi-competent manager.

He also has to fit into a complex attacking system at city that typically see's us have just 4 defensive minded players in the side and maybe we need more control in the middle at times compared to Southgate who favours a back 5 and a minimum 2 holding midfielders and not only could afford to give foden more freedom, would benefit from it when foden pulls the strings and makes Southgate seem less clueless.

Maybe if Southgate had more nous than the failed championship manager that he is, he'd be able to come up with something for himself and set the team up to best utilise the best player we have instead of benching him because he hasn't got a clue.

I'd be livid with the FA for such a criminal appointment and continued employment if I genuinely gave a shit about england. As it is, as somebody that would like to see us win but not really arsed either way, I just feel sorry for foden and the other city players who are being seriously held back at international level having somebody so woefully out of his depth in charge.

I've said this before but unless we fluke a win through sheer talent next summer, I'm certain we will all look back on this period as the standout most wasteful squad we've ever had. The way we currently look back at the "Golden era" around svens time and question how we won nothing with the likes of Cole, Terry, Campbell. Gerrard. Lampard, Scholes, Beckham, Owen etc will pale in comparison to how we evaluate southgates reign and it's all down to the man in charge.

In my eyes his comments here are a shocking admission that he doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[super_city_si]

Spurs dont play maddison left wing either but it didnt stop the clueless wanker playing him there on saturday. He just makes it up. Foden has played mostly in the center this season and has shone. He played 75% of a champions league final there you dopey twat.

 

[cheekybids]

Spurs dont play maddison left wing either but it didnt stop the clueless wanker playing him there on saturday. He just makes it up. Foden has played mostly in the center this season and has shone. He played 75% of a champions league final there you dopey twat.

From Opta stats City v Newcastle



Phil Foden created seven chances from open play for Manchester City in this match – his most in a single Premier League game, in what was his 131st appearance in the competition.


Waistcoat is a gas-lighting ****!

 

[Whether or not]

Southgate using Foden again as a deflection mechanism following another crap England performance. The man is a pathetic charlatan.

If the real aim for England is qualification and the money that comes with it, fine. If the aim is winning something, then this negative dinosaur is nowhere near good enough. In two major championship matches, Croatia and Italy, England took the lead and then instantly sat back and played hoof ball. In both games Pickford had the most touches.

Of course Southgate does not trust Foden, likewise Grealish and even Rashford, because he wants 4/5 defenders and 2 holding midfielders. Southgate is Sam Allardyce in a waistcoat. If you gave the current English players to Terry Venables or Bobby Robson, they would win tournaments.

 

[melrose40yarder]

Time to get rid of this fucking no mark losing fucker Southgate.

We need a foreign manager a tried and tested winner.

Southgate has never won any major trophy, in fact when did an English manager last win a major trophy of any kind.

International is dead apart from the latter stages of tournaments.
The managers who keep getting jobs proves it Roberto Martinez Portugal after fucking Belgium.
Waistcoat nothing more to say!

 

[r.soleofsalford]

I think we had tried and tested winners with Capello and Sven, who had better teams than Southgate had and we failed.

I think we as a nation are rather arrogant thinking we can win stuff when we haven't since 1966. I always compare England to Spurs, we tried this tried and tested foreign winners with AVB, Conte and Jose and won fuck all. I dunno how it would work with England when we have gone that route before and it failed.

I think we have punched above our weight personally. My only beef with Southgate is we are too negative when push comes to shove, but you could say that about the past 7-8 England managers.

I think with friendlies and qualifiers all most people hope for is their players come back unscathed. I think part of the slow mundane shit is risk of injury

He`s never won anything as a manager and nothing as a coach. This isn`t personal but if we are sending our player out at the risk of serious injury I`d like there to be some chance of winning something.

The standard of international football is predominantly shite.

 

[Bettys Bell]

Making Phil a scapegoat for his crap team and man management. Says it all about him .

 

[ShorehamCitizen]

All suspiciously similar, if you ask me.

And all support non-league and lower league clubs, mostly Portsmouth by past observations although I do see a City flag there.

 

[dickie davies]

I think Harry speaks for most of us

The one time he has spoken ( and I have actually listened) and he is absolutely right.

Paraphrased for him, due to being on tv - " Watching England is a fucking waste of time and patience ."

Southgate makes watching the England games a boring torture and total waste of talent that certain players possess.

Bravo Harry for saying what 99% of us think! What is the fucking point?? They might as well just dispense with the qualifiers, because unless you have a nightmare like Italy did and Germany appear to be doing, the big teams are certain to qualify anyway. They should just get a bye. Nobody wants to watch Morocco v Iran at a world cup finals except people from those countries. They are there as cannon fodder although the odd shock does happen. The world cup is the big teams competing.

As for England the absolute minimum we should expect is the quarter finals and we usually achieve that. This is because the groups are geared that way. We are the national equivalent of inferior teams we play in the premier league. Boring and dull, defend in depth and hope for a set piece or one moment of luck or magic to win. We are fucking shit and that stems from the incompetent shitehouse in charge.

The fucking hypocrite
It was only a few years ago he was desperate for the England job

 

[threespires]

In all walks of life you encounter plenty of 'managers' who don't have the skills to help the team get the job done but whose main 'skill' is managing upwards to their bosses who are often off with the fairies themselves. To do this they are adept at throwing their own staff under the bus in the cause of self preservation, often the wrong ones too. As far as I can tell Southgate fits that archetype so maybe he's our ideal national coach!

 

[dickie davies]

Still think we are overhyping this 'group of players'. I hear all the time Southgate 'should be winning with this group of players'. Why should he? How many English players get in the French team? How many English players would crack the Spain 2010 team, Brazil in 2002 or Germany in 2014? 2012 Spain had a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta. 2002 Brazil had a front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu and Roberto Carlos as wingbacks. Germany in 2014 were the epitome of German efficiency and power. The current England team and England of the past 4 years isn't anywhere near the caliber of teams to previously win the World Cup.

England are not going to be playing any of those teams (except possibly the current French side)
Very average teams, such as Greece, have won major tournaments.A poor Italy eventually beat England on pens in one final
An England squad that even I could pick would be as good as anything in current international world football.
England needs the coach to extract club performances from the most talented players, not stifle them

 

[BringBackSwales]

Still think we are overhyping this 'group of players'. I hear all the time Southgate 'should be winning with this group of players'. Why should he? How many English players get in the French team? How many English players would crack the Spain 2010 team, Brazil in 2002 or Germany in 2014? 2012 Spain had a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta. 2002 Brazil had a front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu and Roberto Carlos as wingbacks. Germany in 2014 were the epitome of German efficiency and power. The current England team and England of the past 4 years isn't anywhere near the caliber of teams to previously win the World Cup.

Two World Cup semifinals, and one European championship final in which we lost on penalties. Its a decent record. Reality is Southgate could get the bin, and his replacement would struggle to match his achievements, no matter who replaces him.

But we don’t have to beat teams of 13, 21, 9 years ago we have to beat the less capable teams of now. How does the fact that there have been some good teams in the past in any way obscure what a tactically inept loser that Southgate is? You are saying Southgate has done well coming 4th and second; same fucking logic as arsenal having a great season in 22/23, coming SECOND; who is happy coming second? And by the way Waistcoat hasn’t got us to 2 World Cup semi finals

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Still think we are overhyping this 'group of players'. I hear all the time Southgate 'should be winning with this group of players'. Why should he? How many English players get in the French team? How many English players would crack the Spain 2010 team, Brazil in 2002 or Germany in 2014? 2012 Spain had a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta. 2002 Brazil had a front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu and Roberto Carlos as wingbacks. Germany in 2014 were the epitome of German efficiency and power. The current England team and England of the past 4 years isn't anywhere near the caliber of teams to previously win the World Cup.

Two World Cup semifinals, and one European championship final in which we lost on penalties. It’s a decent record. Reality is Southgate could get the bin, and his replacement would struggle to match his achievements, no matter who replaces him.

That doesn’t make any difference to today. None of those teams are around now and there are no teams around as good as them now.

Italy, Holland, Germany and Brazil currently have their worst teams in their history. Spain are okay at the moment but nothing more, even world champions Argentina are just okay but they’re nowhere near as good as those past great teams. There are very few good collections of players in international football these days, yet England are one of them.

Even France who are probably the best around now, would convincingly lose to 1998 France… they lost to today’s not-bad Argentina with an ageing Otamendi at the back and underwhelming midfielders like De Paul.

Plus it’s not that England are overhyped, we had a stronger staring XI in the 00s, but it’s the technical aspect of today’s players. In the past English players couldn’t pass the ball as well as other international teams. Yet today’s academies know how to bring through good technical players who are skilful and good passers of the ball. This isn’t the best England team ever, but it’s the best group of technical players we’ve ever produced.

Also, while it’s not the best England team ever, it’s the best depth of quality in attack, with the standard of quality not dropping off too much the deeper we get, we’ve ever had.

Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Maddison, Saka, Gordon, Bellingham as a supporting cast to Kane should be frightening… but how often have England been frightening in attack despite having that group of players behind him?

But Southgate would rather pick Mount, Henderson, Rashford, Sancho, even Hudson-Odoi, and leave Foden and Grealish on the bench and play against the strengths we have and be defensive minded and try and hold on to 1-0 leads.

 

[citydad]

And all support non-league and lower league clubs, mostly Portsmouth by past observations although I do see a City flag there.

Just on train to Glasgow, having been Poland at weekend for Ukraine game. City have always had good support at England. When we went France 98 World Cup we'd just slipped into Division 3.

 

[Gazza]

Still think we are overhyping this 'group of players'. I hear all the time Southgate 'should be winning with this group of players'. Why should he? How many English players get in the French team? How many English players would crack the Spain 2010 team, Brazil in 2002 or Germany in 2014? 2012 Spain had a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta. 2002 Brazil had a front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu and Roberto Carlos as wingbacks. Germany in 2014 were the epitome of German efficiency and power. The current England team and England of the past 4 years isn't anywhere near the caliber of teams to previously win the World Cup.

Two World Cup semifinals, and one European championship final in which we lost on penalties. Its a decent record. Reality is Southgate could get the bin, and his replacement would struggle to match his achievements, no matter who replaces him.

I wonder if the teams you've mentioned would have been as successful under Southgate's management.

 

[give it to gordon]

‘Speak to Pep’: Gareth Southgate fires back over Phil Foden’s best position

The England manager rejects the idea that the 23-year-old is playing more centrally for Manchester City this season

www.theguardian.com

Southgate is fast becoming top of my knobhead list and that takes some doing !

I'm not a violent man but if I ever met southgate I'll have a right go at the twat. He is fucking clueless Phil is clearly the best if his generation.
Who did Pep turn to to play in the middle in our most important game. Phil yes southgate Phil Foden replaced KDB in centre midfield in the CL final.

My dislike of southgate is growing by the day, he is a spineless fa fucking yes man. He shouldn't be allowed to coach any City players

 

[sh249]

Think a couple of posts above nailed the issue in terms of current frustrations.
I don‘t think this group of players is exceptional compared to previous England squads. Not at all. But we are much stronger relatively - none of the traditional big-hitters look especially good at the moment, and no-one else has come forward and filled that gap. So there‘s a real sense of opportunity that is being squandered.
FWIW I think Southgate did a good job initially - however easy the route to the semi was in 2018, it was still a success. Especially when you look back at the utter shitshows that came before between 2008 and 2016. Getting to the final of the Euros was an achievement, but the writing was on the wall in how he evidently froze and had no idea how to wrest back control of the game. He‘s now outstayed his welcome and should go. The decision to pick Henderson (more so than Maguire) was fucking ludicrous, and then shoehorning Maddison in on the left was plain dumb.

 

[cheekybids]

Still think we are overhyping this 'group of players'. I hear all the time Southgate 'should be winning with this group of players'. Why should he? How many English players get in the French team? How many English players would crack the Spain 2010 team, Brazil in 2002 or Germany in 2014? 2012 Spain had a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta. 2002 Brazil had a front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu and Roberto Carlos as wingbacks. Germany in 2014 were the epitome of German efficiency and power. The current England team and England of the past 4 years isn't anywhere near the caliber of teams to previously win the World Cup.

Two World Cup semifinals, and one European championship final in which we lost on penalties. Its a decent record. Reality is Southgate could get the bin, and his replacement would struggle to match his achievements, no matter who replaces him.

This was the team that knocked England out. You seriously don’t think England have stronger players than this.

There’s also no way Southgate would have selected Griezmann to play that role if he was in the other dug out.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

‘Speak to Pep’: Gareth Southgate fires back over Phil Foden’s best position

The England manager rejects the idea that the 23-year-old is playing more centrally for Manchester City this season

www.theguardian.com

Southgate is fast becoming top of my knobhead list and that takes some doing !

I'm not a violent man but if I ever met southgate I'll have a right go at the twat. He is fucking clueless Phil is clearly the best if his generation.
Who did Pep turn to to play in the middle in our most important game. Phil yes southgate Phil Foden replaced KDB in centre midfield in the CL final.

My dislike of southgate is growing by the day, he is a spineless fa fucking yes man. He shouldn't be allowed to coach any City players

How about managing your own side Gareth?

Pep has a team full of very talented, well coached individuals. In the England set up, that is categorically not the case, so it doesn't f*cking matter what Pep thinks about where Foden mainly plays for his club side. It's where he would fit best in the National setup, and it isn't coming on as an impact sub in the RM position.

 

[foggy1974]

Think a couple of posts above nailed the issue in terms of current frustrations.
I don‘t think this group of players is exceptional compared to previous England squads. Not at all. But we are much stronger relatively - none of the traditional big-hitters look especially good at the moment, and no-one else has come forward and filled that gap. So there‘s a real sense of opportunity that is being squandered.
FWIW I think Southgate did a good job initially - however easy the route to the semi was in 2018, it was still a success. Especially when you look back at the utter shitshows that came before between 2008 and 2016. Getting to the final of the Euros was an achievement, but the writing was on the wall in how he evidently froze and had no idea how to wrest back control of the game. He‘s now outstayed his welcome and should go. The decision to pick Henderson (more so than Maguire) was fucking ludicrous, and then shoehorning Maddison in on the left was plain dumb.

Isn't that the point about Southgate, that the manager should be able to make the team greater as a whole. Look at what Jack Charlton did with players nowhere near the technical ability of this England team.

Maybe Richards Keys should tell everyone, Southgate needs an attacking coach