England v Brazil | Friendly | Match Thread

supercity88 said:
I'm not sure what the point would be in experimenting if we already know so much! We know Foden is good in the middle, so why try him there? See if he's good on the right!

Ultimately we've all got our own ideas on who is good enough and who isn't and what tactics we'd employ. Southgate's got his ideas and is trying things out in order to finalise his squad.

I don't disagree he's tactically inept. I think you'd be an idiot to think otherwise. But I also think it's a job where you're destined to fail anyway. England fans of most sports are the same. It's about playing a certain way - attacking, as much as it is about winning. Unless we lose. If we lose, then we question why the manager wasn't more pragmatic. That's our right! It was the same with the rugby team in the World Cup and it's the same with Bazball.

More relevant for the other thread about this being the one of the most talented England squad's ever - I just simply disagree. I think it's okay but nothing more. We once had a squad with the likes of Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Owen, Rooney. All world class players considered in the top 10 of their positions. It's simply not the case now. And you must agree as you've just slagged off a good few of the options!
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I have never said this is the most talent squad England has ever had. I do think it is talented enough to do far better than Southgate will allow, though.

And I think, based on your responses and mine, we are probably at an impasse and should just agree to disagree on various points.

We both want what is best for England (and especially English City players), we just disagree on how that can be achieved, it seems.
 
super_city_si said:
He's come to the conclusion that playing 'not to lose' is fairly successful in tournament football. You always get the chance of penalties.
His MO is score set pieces and keep it tight. Should be enough, if not we have a pretty good chance on penalties (Euro 2020 aside).

Trouble is, playing not to lose IS pretty successful but only against 80% of the teams. Once we get to the semi or final, we play teams who hurt us when we sit deep and just continually turn over the ball. His whole plan comes apart in the latter stages. We will NOT win anything with him. It's soul destroying watching us camp out on our area and Pickford hoof the ball to the other team for 75 mins just waiting for the inevitable.
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I think “fairly successful in tournament football” is a problematic stance for the reasons you have given (and others). ;-)

But I agree with your other points.

I just realised Super City is engaging me from all sides today!

Just need @superciteh to jump in and we’ll have the trifecta.
 
SebastianBlue said:
I think “fairly successful in tournament football” is a problematic stance for the reasons you have given (and others). ;-)

But I agree with your other points.

I just realised Super City is engaging me from all sides today!

Just need @superciteh to jump in and we’ll have the trifecta.
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When you come up against a team in the latter stages of a competition, you're basically playing the best of the best and this is where the manager makes a difference, unfortunately................

Knowing the FA they'd probably replace Southgate with that other fraud Roberto Martinez.
 
Gazza said:
When you come up against a team in the latter stages of a competition, you're basically playing the best of the best and this is where the manager makes a difference, unfortunately................

Knowing the FA they'd probably replace Southgate with that other fraud Roberto Martinez.
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I agree, hence why Southgate’s approach isn’t actually fairly successful in tournament competition. At least not in the modern iteration.

Look at the last four winners of the Euros and World Cup. Only one could be accused of playing a true “don’t lose” system (and I even think there is an argument that is not accurate) and that was the one that came up against a less competent manager playing not to lose.

And I genuinely wonder if Martinez would actually be worse than Southgate.

That’s coming from someone that detests Martinez’s utterly shambolic management of Belgium’s golden generation.
 
SebastianBlue said:
I have never said this is the most talent squad England has ever had. I do think it is talented enough to do far better than Southgate will allow, though.

And I think, based on your responses and mine, we are probably at an impasse and should just agree to disagree on various points.

We both want what is best for England (and especially English City players), we just disagree on how that can be achieved, it seems.
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I want England to win something and I don't believe Southgate will deliver that. But as an England fan I also appreciate he has come closest in my lifetime and delivered some great moments. I don't believe this is the best squad ever therefore assumptions someone else comes in and wins things with this team are far fetched in my opinion - which is my wider point and not aimed at what you have said.

I would love to see us play a dominant attacking style of football but I don't think we are good enough to do it.

Southgate also gets little mitigation for his teams/tactics. These games were aimed at testing England against two very good sides. They will have been picked on the basis of playing a team likely to start the Euros. Instead he has faced a number of players withdrawing through "injury" because of their timing. Palmer, Saka, Kane on Saturday now Walker and Maguire.

So he picks a side that is based on the foundations of his best team with a few new players thrown in. That's logical. I don't see why you would throw an experimental team together when you know 8 or 9 of your first 11 and how you want to play. That's essentially all we disagree on!
 
Gazza said:
When you come up against a team in the latter stages of a competition, you're basically playing the best of the best and this is where the manager makes a difference, unfortunately................

Knowing the FA they'd probably replace Southgate with that other fraud Roberto Martinez.
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That's something I completely agree with. And it's also the time when the best players step up and deliver those moments of quality. But they only do so in a system that gives them the freedom to do so and also takes the odd risk. Mbappe doesn't defend at all for France, but they cover him so he can do his damage where it matters. Southgate has to try and give key players more freedom, and for me he achieves it by using Stones just as Pep does.
 
Things have moved on a few years now, but while Pep was in Spain and in Germany they were the best countries out there.

They based their national team around the majority of their best club team and played similar football. It removed the confusion and time getting players to gel.

Southgate hasn't even attempted anything along these lines. That's where the waste of top players comes in.

Start 4 City players, throw in a couple of Arsenal players who work under Arteta, plus a few Chelsea (ie. Sterling and Palmer). Stick Kane up top just so there's a valid excuse if we don't win anything.

That's a sound basis for a team that can play together without too many conflicting styles.
 
mattcity5 said:
Things have moved on a few years now, but while Pep was in Spain and in Germany they were the best countries out there.

They based their national team around the majority of their best club team and played similar football. It removed the confusion and time getting players to gel.

Southgate hasn't even attempted anything along these lines. That's where the waste of top players comes in.

Start 4 City players, throw in a couple of Arsenal players who work under Arteta, plus a few Chelsea (ie. Sterling and Palmer). Stick Kane up top just so there's a valid excuse if we don't win anything.

That's a sound basis for a team that can play together without too many conflicting styles.
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Sterling.....

Are you ill ??
 
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