England v Uruguay

[Mdr]

This is what really pisses me off with football in this country and the average 'England' football fan.

The argument that 'this is what happens when the premier league is so full of foreign players' is just utter bollocks.

There is absolutely no way that if city as a team had an option on a player that was better than silva, better than toure, better than aguero; THAT WAS ENGLISH, that they wouldn't be playing for us. The fact is that we haven't got players like that and as a result we won't be signing them and playing them. The fact that we don't have good enough english players is not a consequence of foreign players in our league, it merely stands to highlight the point that we don't have high enough standards in this country.

There is a certain xenophobia when it comes to other ways of going about producing fine players. A suspicion of anything that isn't English. Well trust me the gap between England and Holland, France, Spain and Germany will only continue to get bigger. The argument that Spain have had an awful tournament too is moot. They have just come to the end of what was perhaps the most dominating international team ever.

I'm seeing comments here making light of statements such as 'we don't prioritise skill and technique as much as power and height and work rate'. It's this attitude that will keep us from ever winning anything ever again. I've said it before and I will say it again, England winning the World Cup in 1966 was the worst thing to ever happen to English football.

I'm sick of it. And the sad thing is, if even if they do manage to qualify somehow (and they definitely don't deserve to) all of this will be forgotten. I'm just bored of it.

Right now, English football in general accepts the fact that we've chosen foreign players and the quality of our league over developing English ones, and the quality of the national side, and that's something everybody knows and that's fine.
We won the league, yet we've only two players in the squad, one being the keeper. We'd have English players in there if they were good enough, but they're not. The fact that the Man City representation was Hart and Milner says it all really.

English players, typically, have always been the hardworking type. It's the foreign players that would be the more creative, good finisher, type of player. So while Sterling or whoever, may benefit playing alongside Suarez at Liverpool, there's nobody with the ability to do what Suarez can do. There's hardworking players there, but as always the final touch and the final delivery isn't good enough, and that's where the foreign players dominate. There's not one player in that English side, with the exception of maybe Rooney, that people expect something special to happen. Nobody expects "magic" from Welbeck, Hederson etc.
Like I said earlier, the expectation needs to be lowered until the development of the game in England changes.

Definitely agree with that but it's like I've said, there is definite suspicion and resentment towards anyone who would attempt to change the system as it is. It just seems like jobs for the boys.. I mean it clearly is but the whole thing about needing to appoint an English manager to 'properly understand the English way' is utter shit. It's football. The England manager is a puppet in the same way a leader of a government is. They are there to take the plaudits and the abuse but really, roy Hodgson never had a change tonight, a complete 20 year overhaul is needed from the very bottom upwards and it will not happen when people like Greg fucking dyke and Trevor fucking brooking are involved in this process.

So, so much needs to be changed, but I do think that people just need to accept that this isn't Spain or Germany etc. the players aren't there.
But for a country, where football is the most popular sport, and the playing pool is so massive, logistically, it doesn't make sense.

Like look at Ireland for an example, every time (except the last Euro's) they got into a tournament, they qualified into the next round.
Despite the fact that football isn't the most popular sport, despite the fact that the pool of players is tiny, etc. Why?
They work hard, the level of expectation is low, they have a clear plan, and play above their abilities, while the entire country is behind them.

You look at the management they have now, Martin O'Neil and Roy Keane as his no.2. I imagine those players are only delighted to go in and play for them, they're excited, they look forward to it.

Now look at England..
People expect a quarter final, at least, England's (arguably) best player dreads it because he knows what's waiting for him if he doesn't play well.
I mean, who would want to play for England, with that level of criticism and negativity and pressure. Do you think any of those players have enjoyed this tournament so far?
Why the hell would any of them want to work their asses off when they're constantly treated like shit?

The entire attitude around English football needs to change, how do you expect players to deliver when their own supporters want them to fail.
Sadly that's a culture that has lived long in English football.

They need a manager who can give them a clear game plan, get the best out of the limited players that are there, and support the players you do have.

 

[TCIB]

Same old shite, different year.
At least we had a go to an extent, i can live with that.

Grass roots...etc etc, meh its the training and as mentioned, physical attributes.
To much pressure to win to early and so on.

Either way we still fail miserably, we had a go but some poor selections on Roy's part and some dodgy logic.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

So glad I backed Uruguay at 5/2 earlier in the week.
England were truly awful imo-lacking tempo,pace and any desire to move off the ball. It was painful to watch and so pedestrian. I cannot see Italy beating Uruguay and Costa Rica to help us.
Relying on washed up rags..Shrek,Wellshit a washed out scouser in Gerrard.
As long as Woy is in charge the same old shit will continue.
How long is it before City get the blame for buying foreign players??

 

[Armaan]

I think your all forgetting Zidane once said Gerrard is the best player in the world so it must be true! At least that's what all my annoying dipper friends tell me lol.

 

[ROCKET80]

Gerard has been our Achilles heel for a number of years now. He’s not disciplined nor is he technically efficient enough for International football.

Sure he’ll look good against teams like Macedonia and San Marino but when coming up against a quality midfield he’s useless. He mastered the art of running around a lot and striking a ball very, very hard. That is it. He is not an intelligent enough footballer to play possession based football.

The less said about Rooney the better, we can no longer afford to accommodate him.

Welbeck will soon be sold to Sunderland or Hull and then we’ll never see him wear an England top again, that day can’t come quick enough. Henderson, who had a fairly decent season is back to looking distinctly average.

Our defence is woeful but then so many of the teams at this tournament suffer from the same thing. We lack a world class player, Italy and Uruguay have at least 1 each.

We’re just not good enough, haven’t been for a long time and it won’t get better until a manager is appointed who has the balls to pick players on merit and who fit into a team and not pick players on past reputations or the fact they play for a certain club and manage to shift a few more shirts.

I agree about Gerrard. Past it, but I can see why it would have been difficult to drop him, however I think in midfield is where England collapsed and lost the game.
I think it's a bit harsh on Rooney (though ridiculously overhyped) because he was the best England had to offer, he wasn't his best, but who was there that would have done better than him? I'm all for it, but there's not much on an option there.
Welbeck is just horrendous, I fail to think of any other team he'd make, he's just plain awful and it really is a sad state of affairs that there's nothing better to offer than him apparently.
Our defence is a backline of Everton, not exactly world beaters.
At what point were England good enough? Any time England had any semblance of a top player/good team, they crumbled under the relentless pressure and criticism.
Who should have been picked? What world class player got left out? With the size of the playing pool in England it's laughable that there isn't one top class player among them.
So, in all seriousness, who should have made the team/squad, that didn't. Who would have been England's saviour?

I think Rooney was picked purely on the hope that he would regain some kind of form or produce some kind of magic. He didn't just as he hadn't done for United all season.

Our back line is poor but we can't use that as an excuse as there are teams doing better than us with equally poor if not worse defences, look at Chile and Mexico.

From what I recall we've never really been anywhere near good enough to warrant any expectation going into a tournament. I can only recall us ever threatening to do something in 1990 and 2002 and in both those World Cups we didn't perform particularly well.

Speaking to people back home I got the impression there was no expectation for this England team and that getting out of the group would have been deemed a relative success. Picking the likes of Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney seems a complete waste. We'd have surely benefited in the long run having given plenty of game time to the likes of Lallana, Barkley and Shaw, preparing them for what to expect at Euro 2016 (if we qualify).

The fact that we are always looking for a saviour tell us all we need to know about England. We don't need a saviour as we've got some very good players, we just need a manager (backed by the FA) who is going to pick the right players to fit a system as at the moment our system just seems to be incorporate Gerrard and Rooney.

I've no idea who this manager is but there must be someone out there as other countries seem to find them. I guess though it has to be an Englishman or a foreigner who is a household. Could you imagine the outrage from Darryl 'the die hard red' from Essex if we appointed someone with the C.V of Joachim Low? He'd be straight onto talksport shouting "What has he ever won?"

 

[super_city_si]

I think your all forgetting Zidane once said Gerrard is the best player in the world so it must be true! At least that's what all my annoying dipper friends tell me lol.

I thought it was scholes he said that about.

 

[super_city_si]

Lots of successful countries pick a system and they dictate to the youth team coaches that they have to teach the players how to play the chosen system. It is played at all youth levels. The technical director of the Belgian FA spoke to his French, Dutch and German counterparts and they all said that's how they do it. He then went back to Belgium and implemented it and look at Belgium now. They are developing technically sound players who are already familiar with the system they will play.
England's trouble is they pick the players and then try to find a system they fit. Until we play players who can perform their role in a system we will do fuck all.

What I mean to say is, we need to find players that fit a formation not find a formation that fits the favourite players.

 

[tonea2003]

So it turns out teams who aren't well-organized and can't keep the ball for long periods go out first.

Who knew?

nail on the head mate, gusto for the equalizer only gets you so far

 

[Bluekiwi]

I confess that I haven't read all the pages so someone may have already commented.

This England team is crying out for a CREATIVE midfielder who has the ball control and vision and skill to keep the ball and then play those telling passes, either short or long. Are there any English players with those skills?

Turning to the game I was totally pissed off with Hodgson starting the same eleven and then putting on the same subs (apart from Lambert). It didn't work against Italy and again against Uruguay. Is he naïve or just putting his pets on the pitch?

I think that Lescott could have done a much better job in defence than the two Hodgson put out, even though he didn't get much game time last season, at least he has a cool head and boy did we need that today.

IF England somehow manage to get through I fear they will get torn apart by whoever they meet.

 

[sh249]

Lots of successful countries pick a system and they dictate to the youth team coaches that they have to teach the players how to play the chosen system. It is played at all youth levels. The technical director of the Belgian FA spoke to his French, Dutch and German counterparts and they all said that's how they do it. He then went back to Belgium and implemented it and look at Belgium now. They are developing technically sound players who are already familiar with the system they will play.
England's trouble is they pick the players and then try to find a system they fit. Until we play players who can perform their role in a system we will do fuck all.

What I mean to say is, we need to find players that fit a formation not find a formation that fits the favourite players.

Nail on head for me. Clearly, we aren't blessed with a great pool of players at the moment (Johnson, Jagielka, Baines, Henderson, Welbeck are all poor at international level), but other sides have shown what can be achieved if the system and style of play is right. Chile have got two class players in Sanchez and Vidal, but the rest are hardly world-beaters.

The overriding problem is the complete absence of any kind of overarching plan of how we want to play and develop. We go into every major tournament still unsure about formations and selections, and while other countries use the friendlies before just to tweak a few things, we invariably find ourselves throwing players together in the hope that we somehow stumble on a winning formula. Over the past two years, there has been no semblance, whatsoever, of us putting together a team that would be honed and ready to compete at this tournament - it's all just been a case of muddling through each game as it comes, desperately trying to shoehorn whoever may be the particular flavour of the month into the team, no matter how it effects the overall balance and make-up.

Has to change, but difficult at the moment to see how. Certainly don't envisage any improvement under Hodgson, maybe appoint Neville and give him the time to try and change things? And try to find a proper, modern, forward-thinking technical director to put more extensive plans in place.