Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

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Here: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/egov_downloads/MCFCEastManchester.pdf - see point 4.4 on page 15 of the 39 contained in the PDF file that opens if you follow the above link.

The Council was to dispose of the collar site land to the development JV (to be owned 20% by MCC and 80% by MCFC) with the Council having "the right to take the lease back from the ”JV” Development Company Limited at market value" in the event that "less than 25% of the Collar Site has been redeveloped within 15 years of the grant of the lease".

The lease clearly hadn't been granted as at14 March 2012, the date of that report, because the reference is still to a "proposed" disposal. In fact, I don't think we've ever had official confirmation that it has been. However, presumably it was, probably sometime in 2012. This would mean that we've until 2027 to develop a quarter of the land, or risk having the Council take it back at a market price.

From memory, the collar site was initially 37 acres and then they tacked on an extra 5 acres that hadn't previously been included. If that's right, we're looking at a little over 10 acres having to be developed in, I suppose, the next 12 years or so to prevent the Council having an option to repurchase the land.
 
petrusha said:
Here: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/egov_downloads/MCFCEastManchester.pdf - see point 4.4 on page 15 of the 39 contained in the PDF file that opens if you follow the above link.

The Council was to dispose of the collar site land to the development JV (to be owned 20% by MCC and 80% by MCFC) with the Council having "the right to take the lease back from the ”JV” Development Company Limited at market value" in the event that "less than 25% of the Collar Site has been redeveloped within 15 years of the grant of the lease".

The lease clearly hadn't been granted as at14 March 2012, the date of that report, because the reference is still to a "proposed" disposal. In fact, I don't think we've ever had official confirmation that it has been. However, presumably it was, probably sometime in 2012. This would mean that we've until 2027 to develop a quarter of the land, or risk having the Council take it back at a market price.

From memory, the collar site was initially 37 acres and then they tacked on an extra 5 acres that hadn't previously been included. If that's right, we're looking at a little over 10 acres having to be developed in, I suppose, the next 12 years or so to prevent the Council having an option to repurchase the land.
Click to expand...

I was trying to get a handle on the likely milestones needed for the Collar Site but the right to buy-back at market value is less worrying than what I thought was in place, namely that they simply had to hand the land back.

It seems clear that the priority will be given to the North Stand adding a delay of 18 months - 2 years before any holes are dug on the Collar at the very earliest.

Any consultation for the Collar would likely be more detailed than for the CFA or South Stand/North Stand and I would think there would be 12-18 months put aside for that too.

Would it be fair to say that we wont see any action on the Collar before 2020?
 
fbloke said:
I was trying to get a handle on the likely milestones needed for the Collar Site but the right to buy-back at market value is less worrying than what I thought was in place, namely that they simply had to hand the land back.

It seems clear that the priority will be given to the North Stand adding a delay of 18 months - 2 years before any holes are dug on the Collar at the very earliest.

Any consultation for the Collar would likely be more detailed than for the CFA or South Stand/North Stand and I would think there would be 12-18 months put aside for that too.

Would it be fair to say that we wont see any action on the Collar before 2020?
Click to expand...

May be longer than 2020 if the development of the East stand goes ahead to match the South and North
 
fbloke said:
I was trying to get a handle on the likely milestones needed for the Collar Site but the right to buy-back at market value is less worrying than what I thought was in place, namely that they simply had to hand the land back.

It seems clear that the priority will be given to the North Stand adding a delay of 18 months - 2 years before any holes are dug on the Collar at the very earliest.

Any consultation for the Collar would likely be more detailed than for the CFA or South Stand/North Stand and I would think there would be 12-18 months put aside for that too.

Would it be fair to say that we wont see any action on the Collar before 2020?
Click to expand...

I think you're right that priority will be given to the North Stand. However, if there are settled plans for the collar site and a definite intention to proceed with the work, wouldn't it make sense for them to keep machinery/equipment/workforce on site to the maximum degree possible and make a start once the North Stand is done? There doesn't seem any reason why you couldn't consult while the stadium expansion work was being carried out (or am I missing something?). If so, perhaps the timings might be:

- Winter 2015/6: announce go-ahead for plans to expand North Stand (to be done in a manner consistent with existing planning consent)
- March 2016: work on North Stand begins
- March 2016 to August 2017: work on North Stand ongoing
- Summer 2016: announcment of plans for Phase 1 of the collar site (isn't the informed talk that the collar site will be developed in 3 or 4 stages, each taking two years?) and start of extended consultation period on the plans
- Early 2017: planning application submitted for Phase 1 collar site
- August 2017: North Stand expansion completed
- Autumn 2017: ground broken on collar site

Maybe not, but the above seems to have a logic, to me.

I don't think they'll look at expanding either the east or west stands for a while. I expect that, first, we'd have to build up serious untapped demand despite a capacity topping 60K, and it will take well into the next decade for that to happen.

Worsleyweb or any other construction professional is more than welcome to tell me why the above might prove naive or unrealistic bollocks.
 
^^ I believe a few on here have mentioned the collar site commencing before any talk of east/west stand redevelopment.
 
somapop said:
^^ I believe a few on here have mentioned the collar site commencing before any talk of east/west stand redevelopment.
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Follow up for WW - would the potential East Stand development mean that they'd refrain from developing the middle part of the collar site until the expansion work had been done? Otherwise, wouldn't there be problems of access during the expansion works? In other words, could we see the collar site developed at the north end, then the south end, and then the final part after the East Stand has been done sometime in the early to mid 2020s? Sorry if this is more bollocks!
 
petrusha said:
- Summer 2016: announcement of plans for Phase 1 of the collar site (isn't the informed talk that the collar site will be developed in 3 or 4 stages, each taking two years?) and start of extended consultation period on the plans
Click to expand...

Sorry if I've misunderstood, but 6-8 years seems a long time to develop the collar site!?
 
The Fat el Hombre said:
Sorry if I've misunderstood, but 6-8 years seems a long time to develop the collar site!?
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It will be an utterly splendid collar though, and these take time to plan and create:

eleven-objects-collars-3.jpg
 
Does anyone closer to the club know if there have been any pre-application discussions on the Collar site yet. Petrusha - 6months to get planning on something the size and scale of these proposals is probably not long enough. I'm sure the contract will have to be extended as it's unlikely we'll see a quarter of the site developed in those time frames.

I'd imagine any application taking at least 12 months, to cover that number of proposals. It depends how they deal with it. They will probably stick an outline app in confirming the general proposals then submit reserved matters on each phase. I just can't see planning being a quick process with the size and scale of the site and the works. Getting consultation comments back from statutory consultees etc could take an age. The only positive is that the Council have their own interests in the site for economic reasons and will ensure there aren't too many delays.

Your timescales relating to the North stand seem sensible. I'd hope the Collar Site proposals had already been discussed at pre-app so the applications can run quickly.

(I work for a national housebuilder and depending on the council it takes us at least 9months to get planning permissions issues (with S106 Agreements signed). It's taken us 12months and counting to get a S106 in place on one of our sites, so that legal aspect may also hold up works).
 
petrusha said:
Follow up for WW - would the potential East Stand development mean that they'd refrain from developing the middle part of the collar site until the expansion work had been done? Otherwise, wouldn't there be problems of access during the expansion works? In other words, could we see the collar site developed at the north end, then the south end, and then the final part after the East Stand has been done sometime in the early to mid 2020s? Sorry if this is more bollocks!
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In my view there must be some linkage between any East Stand Design/Construction and the central Collar Site section - you have the obvious opportunity to do a Chelsea Village or MK Dons Hotel type link or even, if this part of the Collar Site gets some kind of Football related attraction, I can see a big walkway going across with the ability at the ground end to look in through great glass windows into the 80,000 seater bowl around the perfect pitch

Something like this?
collarsitebridge.jpg



Wasn't this a scene from a Carlsberg Ad?

yes it was, 35 seconds in
 
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We've already taken inspiration from a heineken ad with one of the boxes haven't we? Maybe we're relying on beer commercials to design the campus!

MCFC-3-940x460.jpg
 
DiscoSteve said:
In my view there must be some linkage between any East Stand Design/Construction and the central Collar Site section - you have the obvious opportunity to do a Chelsea Village or MK Dons Hotel type link or even, if this part of the Collar Site gets some kind of Football related attraction, I can see a big walkway going across with the ability at the ground end to look in through great glass windows into the 80,000 seater bowl around the perfect pitch

Something like this?
collarsitebridge.jpg



Wasn't this a scene from a Carlsberg Ad?

yes it was, 35 seconds in
Click to expand...

I was told by someone a while back ( or was it posted on here? ) that there would be no physical connection between the Collar Site and the stadium.

I've no idea why that would be but perhaps it's because any future plans for expanding the stadium need a free standing structure?
 
fbloke said:
I was told by someone a while back ( or was it posted on here? ) that there would be no physical connection between the Collar Site and the stadium.

I've no idea why that would be but perhaps it's because any future plans for expanding the stadium need a free standing structure?
Click to expand...
I've always understood the complete opposite (but I'm not ITK) so presumed the East stand at least would be expanded either first or at the same time as whatever is going to be built there. Damn City, get a move on, I'm getting older and want to see it before I pop my clogs.
 
supercity88 said:
Does anyone closer to the club know if there have been any pre-application discussions on the Collar site yet. Petrusha - 6months to get planning on something the size and scale of these proposals is probably not long enough. I'm sure the contract will have to be extended as it's unlikely we'll see a quarter of the site developed in those time frames.

I'd imagine any application taking at least 12 months, to cover that number of proposals. It depends how they deal with it. They will probably stick an outline app in confirming the general proposals then submit reserved matters on each phase. I just can't see planning being a quick process with the size and scale of the site and the works. Getting consultation comments back from statutory consultees etc could take an age. The only positive is that the Council have their own interests in the site for economic reasons and will ensure there aren't too many delays.

Your timescales relating to the North stand seem sensible. I'd hope the Collar Site proposals had already been discussed at pre-app so the applications can run quickly.

(I work for a national housebuilder and depending on the council it takes us at least 9months to get planning permissions issues (with S106 Agreements signed). It's taken us 12months and counting to get a S106 in place on one of our sites, so that legal aspect may also hold up works).
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. Always really helpful to benefit from specialist knowledge in relation to parts of the process.

Would it be viable to apply for outline permission for the collar site as a whole and reserved matters for phase 1 at the same time?

If so, would we be looking at a timescale of something like - six months consultation and two further months to analyse responses before making the application; and 12 months to decide on the application? That would be 20 months, meaning that if my timescale for the North Stand is right, to complete the North Stand in August 2017 and press straight on with collar site Phase 1 in September 2017, you'd need to announce the collar site consultation in January 2016.

We'll know pretty soon, then, whether that's the plan.
 
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