Re: Etuhu jailed
didactic said:
JohnMaddocksAxe said:
I am as 'PC, wet, pinko, sandle wearing, Guardian reading, lefty, etc" as you get according to many (although they tend to be pea brained idiots) but that sort of post does you no favours at all.
Without any significant sort of evidence and study into the matter (and, no, I don't include "I know a bloke" stories in that) then it just comes across as as uninformed, unscientific and self pitying as the tossers who insist that "the working class white man is a second class citizen."
Your view almost certainly had some truth in it some years ago. Who knows, it may even still have some truth in it. The way you express it and the 'evidence' you present though means your opinion is best ignored though. Just like the way the persecution complex of the idiots mentioned above cheapens and devalues any sort of immigration debate, the way you express your view adds absolutely nothing to any debate on equality in the justice system.
There are many studies into this if only you do some digging its no secret that black people are usually given harsher sentences for crimes. The lad gave an excellent example of that Maxine Carr who was given 3.5 years, a new identity and relocated even though she assisting a child murderer and peverting the course of justice. How many broken noses and bloodly faces do you see outside pubs and clubs every weekend? You honestly believe every single fracas that occurs these people get jail sentences? Its not only the lads above or the "my mate" I use as evidence. There is a great book on this called "The psychology of stereotyping" and in it the author using copious amounts of research concludes
"I believe white prison guards, police officers, probation officers are inclined to be tougher on black defendants because of prejudice within the professions."
There is no equality in the justice system I will not comment on the immigration issue but with regards to the police, courts and jail setences a simple google search will bring up articles like this.
http://www.thecrimereport.org/archive/black-hispanic-men-get-longer-federal-sentences-since-2005
Institutional racism and the police
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/cs06.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/285381.stm National police groups have acknowledged the problem of institutional racism and pledged to "dismantle" discrimination in the light of the Stephen Lawrence inquiry report.
The organisation representing police officers in England and Wales said the Macpherson report makes painful but persuasive reading.
But the Police Federation complains that members feel "battered, bruised and bewildered" by being blamed for a problem which is found across society.
Chairman Fred Broughton acknowledged the existence of "institutional racism" but contested the use of the term "collective failure", which implied the whole police service is racist.
http://www.personneltoday.com/artic...lice-as-apartheid-culture-claims-come-to.html Institutional racism continues to dog Met Police as ‘apartheid culture’ claims come to court
Louisa Peacock 25 February 2009 09:34
The Metropolitan Police will face fresh racism claims that it ran an "apartheid culture" allowing white officers to ride in different vans from black colleagues at an employment tribunal this week.
The country's largest police force has again been thrown into the spotlight after Muslim police community support officer Asad Saeed claimed white officers at Belgravia police station refused to allow black officers in their van, deliberately failed to send a van out to pick up ethnic minority colleagues, and made threats of violence against ethnic colleagues.
At which point did I ask for pity or for someone to feel sorry for Ethuhu or myself? I actually said he should have known this would be the result and avoided it all costs. Just like when I am in group of more than five and we are all black we cross the road when we see the police. But its better to ignore it, apologies for pointing out the obvious I did not intend to burst your harmonious bubble.
I think you need to learn how to debate something sensibly and stop getting on your high horse.
My post said that your original post was worthless. In my opinion it was.
The tone was sensationalist, your evidence consisted of 'my mate...' stories and you sought to brand all of the justice system as racist.
Now, if you think that is the way to win an argument, garner support or illustrate a point then you are sorely mistaken.
What's more and even worse, if your point is correct then that sort of 'support' just gives ammunition to people with the sort of attitude you are talking about as it is light on substance and heavy on suggestive "woe is me" rhetoric.
Now, in fairness, your next post addresses the matter in a slightly different manner, providing factual and proven instances of circumstances occurring. It is still slightly confused, bringing in unrelated issues like Maxine Carr and the fact that many idiots having fights at the weekend do not get caught or prosecuted but it does at least attempt to be more scientific in other parts.
But you need to get something straight. I am not part of a 'harmonious bubble', I am well aware of institutional racism as both a concept and a reality in parts of the police force (and elsewhere in life). I am also, most probably, someone who supports some part of the muddled up point that you are trying to make. (I won't say all of it just yet as I'm not convinced by the balance of it)
When I hear some white van man nobhead telling me that 'they've heard of' or even know some immigrant who has been given a golden car and £2m in benefits I will automatically think they are an absolute bellend for a) thinking that such individual stories -even if true - substantiate their point and b) thinking that others should give any significant credence to such anecdotal (and probably biased) evidence.
And by the same rule, even if it is regarding a point that I may agree with somewhere down the line, if I hear someone else using the same tactics (especially in defence of some clowns who are captured on camera brawling in the street) and supplementing it with a 'this is what it is like for us' tone, then I am going to give it little credence.
If you had started with the decent parts of your second post I might, and only might, have wholeheartedly supported the point you are trying to make.
But you didn't, so I didn't.
PS: if your first thought when seeing such a story is "they should have avoided it because they would get harshly treated" and not "they should have avoided it because it is the actions of bellends" then I suggest that somewhere along the line your judgement has been clouded too much by the issues you are, in many ways correctly, angry about.
In summary, 'my mate' stories are virtually useless in serious debate about serious issues. When combined with a 'we are persecuted' message it gives a ready made excuse for people who really do hold views that you rightly rail against to dismiss it as nonsense and self pity. You illustrate and fight against such serious issues with facts and weighty information. Otherwise you only devalue the issue and come across as someone who a serious source of information. And no matter how strongly you agree with an issue, anyone who gives credence to that sort of manner of illustrating a point would be stupid to do so.
