EU referendum

[AlgarveBlu]

Is there no end to brexit paranoia?

Every public body, national, leader, think tank , politician who says in is lying, anyone who changes is a plant. It's like David icke has taken over the minds of half the country.

Don't diss the Icke pal! Sit back, relax and enjoy -

Scotland In, North out, Midlands mixed towards in, London In, South East out, South west mixed towards out, Northern Ireland In, Wales mixed towards out.

I thought the East Midlands had polled as the most Eurosceptic part of the uk

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Scotland would be a shoe in for another referendum on leaving the UK following an out vote. The DUP in northern ireland are on to this and are voting out. The thing is the SNP can not back the out camapign and then turn around and ask to leave the UK on the basis they want to be in Europe.

Maybe not publicly, but the feeling of Nationalism to leave the Union, how relatively close it was the last time, I believe a lot of SNP voters will now secretly vote to leave.

All about self-interests, the long game. As the ruling party, they can dictate EU entry.

 

[George Hannah]

The only thing is, democracy doesn't always mean you make the best choices.

a minor detail

 

[Pino]

Anybody up for a 'bail-in' ? Eurobanking another casualty.

Is the next Banking Scandal about to come out in Spain ?

Despite the untold billions of euros of public funds lavished on “cleaning up” their balance sheets and the roughly €240 billion of provisions booked against bad debt since December 2007, the banks are just as weak and disaster-prone as they were four years ago.

Keep your eyes on Banco Popular.

No doubt the state will be forced to buy up these bad/worthless/toxic debts, then still owe the money to the central bank.

Italy can't be that far away from some form of financial meltdown.

Will Spain and Italy follow Greece to continuous serfdom ?

Madrid to go cap in hand to their Masters in Berlin ?

Expect a full fledged run on the Spanish Banks.

 

[FanchesterCity]

On the debate the other night - there was a guy interviewed just afterwards. He was a shop keeper....

He said that he'd been asking people if they could name an MEP, and none of them could, therefore he was voting out.

I picture the conversation went something like this:

Customer: Packet of fags please
Shopkeeper: Can you name an MEP?
Customer: oh, and a pint of milk too thanks
Shopkeeper: That'll be £5.97, but can you name an MEP?
Customer: Not a clue mate, oh and keep the change
Shopkeeper: That's good enough for me! fuck Europe!

His vote will count.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Maybe not publicly, but the feeling of Nationalism to leave the Union, how relatively close it was the last time, I believe a lot of SNP voters will now secretly vote to leave.

All about self-interests, the long game. As the ruling party, they can dictate EU entry.

Just think of the mess. Negotiating with the EU and the Jocks at the same time. Then you would have EU citizens with freedom to travel to Jockland so you would need boarder points on the M6 and a berlin style wall through Gretna Green! You'd also have the Welsh nationalists making strong claims for a referendum.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

I think that's overstretching a little.
We - the public are still choosing, and a fair whack of the public have wanted this referendum. He's the one who's been avoiding it (and was repeatedly criticised for doing so).
Now it's happening, it's a bit unfair to say he is the one gambling with our future.

When Blair went to war - he didn't have a referendum and he was criticised for putting our future in danger unilaterally.

I'm a labour voter, but I can't go so far as to say he is the one gambling. It's in the public's hands - democracy in action. The only thing is, democracy doesn't always mean you make the best choices.

I don't think it's unfair, certainly not in the context of the warnings which Cameron and the inners have spouted since the vote was established?

I don't recall him telling the electorate that we will all lose our jobs, our income, our homes, the cost of fecking holidays will be going up.

I'm a Conservative voter and I think he's bet it all on black and is hoping for the best? I don't think the public are really choosing, they are guessing and hoping for the best, like Cameron.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Anybody up for a 'bail-in' ? Eurobanking another casualty.

Is the next Banking Scandal about to come out in Spain ?

Despite the untold billions of euros of public funds lavished on “cleaning up” their balance sheets and the roughly €240 billion of provisions booked against bad debt since December 2007, the banks are just as weak and disaster-prone as they were four years ago.

Keep your eyes on Banco Popular.

No doubt the state will be forced to buy up these bad/worthless/toxic debts, then still owe the money to the central bank.

Italy can't be that far away from some form of financial meltdown.

Will Spain and Italy follow Greece to continuous serfdom ?

Madrid to go cap in hand to their Masters in Berlin ?

Expect a full fledged run on the Spanish Banks.

That will be Germany's problem - Not Ours!

 

[FanchesterCity]

Agreed Cameron has taken us down a path that over 90% of politicians and senior business leaders wanted to avoid. However in my view Boris is worse for his oportunistic jump on the leave bandwagon that has lined him up as the next tory leader. The fact the economy might be significantly dented in the process does not seem to worry him.

That's my view too. Boris has made a political gamble. If we vote 'out' - Cameron will probably have to go, or cling on for a short while, then go. It's Boris's best hope of eliminating him.

 

[Metal Biker]

Just think of the mess. Negotiating with the EU and the Jocks at the same time. Then you would have EU citizens with freedom to travel to Jockland so you would need boarder points on the M6 and a berlin style wall through Gretna Green! You'd also have the Welsh nationalists making strong claims for a referendum.

The Welsh have no real desire for a referendum. Plaid Cymru are pushing for one but their support has been getting smaller, or at the very least the citizens of Wales don't vote in Plaid Cymru MP's to push a referendum rhetoric, more a complete rejection of the two main parties. Welsh Independence is not as popular in Wales as you might be led to believe. Acknowledgment by the rest of the UK of the Welsh People and a Welsh nation is.

 

[FanchesterCity]

I don't think it's unfair, certainly not in the context of the warnings which Cameron and the inners have spouted since the vote was established?

I don't recall him telling the electorate that we will all lose our jobs, our income, our homes, the cost of fecking holidays will be going up.

I'm a Conservative voter and I think he's bet it all on black and is hoping for the best? I don't think the public are really choosing, they are guessing and hoping for the best, like Cameron.

I agree with 'guessing' - I think 95% of us are really. Informed, or fairly reasoned guesses in come cases, but none of us truly know. But I'm sure you know what I mean by 'choosing'. We are having to make a choice, informed or otherwise.

I think both sides have resorted to hyperbole too - which hasn't helped the public. Too many politicians making career moves. I don't think Cameron's doing that, I think plenty of others are. Cameron's now in a career saving mode!

 

[FanchesterCity]

The Welsh have no real desire for a referendum. Plaid Cymru are pushing for one but their support has been getting smaller, or at the very least the citizens of Wales don't vote in Plaid Cymru MP's to push a referendum rhetoric, more a complete rejection of the two main parties. Welsh Independence is not as popular in Wales as you might be led to believe. Acknowledgment by the rest of the UK of the Welsh People and a Welsh nation is.

That'll change if they beat us in the Euros! They'll be fully excommunicated.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

The Welsh have no real desire for a referendum. Plaid Cymru are pushing for one but their support has been getting smaller, or at the very least the citizens of Wales don't vote in Plaid Cymru MP's to push a referendum rhetoric, more a complete rejection of the two main parties. Welsh Independence is not as popular in Wales as you might be led to believe. Acknowledgment by the rest of the UK of the Welsh People and a Welsh nation is.

I quite like the idea of a border between us and Scotland, and that's someone who's mother is from Glasgow and most of my extended family are up there.

How the fuck you police the waters, though, that's another matter.

We'll be £10 billion a year better of, surely, just cutting Scotland loose?

 

[Pino]

That will be Germany's problem - Not Ours!

Wont we be obliged to contribute via the IMF, just as we did with the Greek debacle ?

 

[George Hannah]

Anybody up for a 'bail-in' ? Eurobanking another casualty.

Is the next Banking Scandal about to come out in Spain ?

Despite the untold billions of euros of public funds lavished on “cleaning up” their balance sheets and the roughly €240 billion of provisions booked against bad debt since December 2007, the banks are just as weak and disaster-prone as they were four years ago.

Keep your eyes on Banco Popular.

No doubt the state will be forced to buy up these bad/worthless/toxic debts, then still owe the money to the central bank.

Italy can't be that far away from some form of financial meltdown.

Will Spain and Italy follow Greece to continuous serfdom ?

Madrid to go cap in hand to their Masters in Berlin ?

Expect a full fledged run on the Spanish Banks.

It must be a matter of great satisfaction for Spain that they used our money as a net EU contributor to swindle enough spare cash out of the crooked system to buy Norwich Union Insurance and set up Santander with fake capital to steal our banking markets. The Irish Republic and Portugal also have reason to be grateful to us as beneficiaries of the Kraut designed extortion racket called 'State Aid' although you wouldn't notice.

 

[Metal Biker]

I quite like the idea of a border between us and Scotland, and that's someone who's mother is from Glasgow and most of my extended family are up there.

How the fuck you police the waters, though, that's another matter.

We'll be £10 billion a year better of, surely, just cutting Scotland loose?

Mines in the North Sea? ;) Or can we still make use of those WWII Maunsell Forts?

The Scottish referendum has affected my view on the whole "Better Together" thing. I was all for keeping the Union at one stage but as the debate went on I realsied just how much the Scottish 'Yessers' hate the English just for being English. I'm more of the opinion now that if Scotland wants to cut itself loose, it can feel free to do so.

If given the choice, since there are many Scots who did prefer to remain the in the UK, that southern Scotland should split from the rest of Scotland (Pretty wide enough border), and the north can be free to govern themselves. Since both sides of that debate now pretty much despise one and the other, given the numerous comments we've seen directed at each other, that to me is the only compromise i'd entertain, aside from a complete national split and UK break up.

I've always seen myself as English than British, anyway.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Scotland In, North out, Midlands mixed towards in, London In, South East out, South west mixed towards out, Northern Ireland In, Wales mixed towards out.

You're not the bloke who does the shipping forecasts are you? ;-)

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

I agree with 'guessing' - I think 95% of us are really. Informed, or fairly reasoned guesses in come cases, but none of us truly know. But I'm sure you know what I mean by 'choosing'. We are having to make a choice, informed or otherwise.

I think both sides have resorted to hyperbole too - which hasn't helped the public. Too many politicians making career moves. I don't think Cameron's doing that, I think plenty of others are. Cameron's now in a career saving mode!

I'm guessing. definitely, but at least I get to choose, so I agree with your argument.

I'm not an economist. Self-employed, two little kids, mortgage. I always vote what is seemingly in my own best interests.

For the first time ever, though, I am thinking about what country I want by kiddies to be growing up in, how their class size has grown from 27 to 32 in the last 12 months.

I'd rather short/medium-term pain, on our own terms, and hope to come out the other side in one piece. I'll take that hit for them right now, clean toilets if I have to.

We're all living in an artificially created sense of well-being, anyhow, when the truth is that interest rates have been kept on zero for eight years to avoid us all living in cardboard boxes.

 

[Monkfish]

You're not the bloke who does the shipping forecasts are you? ;-)

he was, got sacked over his fear of German Bight

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Mines in the North Sea? ;) Or can we still make use of those WWII Maunsell Forts?

The Scottish referendum has affected my view on the whole "Better Together" thing. I was all for keeping the Union at one stage but as the debate went on I realsied just how much the Scottish 'Yessers' hate the English just for being English. I'm more of the opinion now that if Scotland wants to cut itself loose, it can feel free to do so.

If given the choice, since there are many Scots who did prefer to remain the in the UK, that southern Scotland should split from the rest of Scotland (Pretty wide enough border), and the north can be free to govern themselves. Since both sides of that debate now pretty much despise one and the other, given the numerous comments we've seen directed at each other, that to me is the only compromise i'd entertain, aside from a complete national split and UK break up.

I've always seen myself as English than British, anyway.

I was angry that despite my mum being a proud Scot, having lived in Manchester for 30-odd years, she was upset she never got a chance to vote.

As you say, it seemed more about sticking it to the English. I was delighted when the Union remained but it makes no sense to delay the demanded inevitable.