It's not a worry, it's a probable fact until the whole lot implodes.
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EU referendum
- Thread starter Ric
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It's not a worry, it's a probable fact until the whole lot implodes.
Moriaty you are not alone. Katie Hopkins agrees with you.
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"Can you hear all that babble? Brexit this and Grassroots that. Undecided about staying. Unsure what might happen if we leave.
Tugging at each other like tug of war teams, digging in with their heels to prove whose balls are bigger. Only to fall on your a*** and find there's nothing on the end of the rope.
Listening to Dave the Rave justifying why we are safer in and Bojo telling us to get the hell out.
I was getting quite caught up in the excitement of it all, watching grown ups shouting IN and OUT.
So then I stopped for a moment. And took a look around.
I stopped listening to people telling me why the Schengen zone mattered and suddenly saw a Great Wall of Wire snaking between Macedonia and Greece.
I looked at Merkel and realised instead of a world leader with kindness in her heart, there was just a ginger German - eating frites, prepared to throw Greece overboard so Germany could keep its head above water.
I watched pictures of asylum seekers in Calais, fighting authority with rocks and fire - a war of their own making - when they were supposed to be escaping the trauma of the very same.
Asylum seekers slashing wrists rather than jumping on transport to decent shelter because they had not come this close to Britain to end up living in France.
And this dodgy Union of ours, finally admitting half of these asylum seekers are no such thing. They were pleasure seekers, now boarding planes back to Baghdad because Finland is too cold and the weather not so nice.
Many are ruthless desperadoes, willing to throw their wives and kids to the bottom of the Med to have a chance of life where living is easy and family comes with benefits.
And I have stopped listening to Dave and his cronies telling me why paying benefits to foreigners multiplying like rabbits is good for Britain - when future pensioners in my country will work till 81 to pay for it.
I turned off the noise. And I saw the truth.
There is no European Union left to leave.
It is a fallacy, a mirage. It is the mortgage bond market of the Big Short or the telephone operating system at HMRC. Seeming to exist, with numbers and salaries, but actually made up of dodgy mortgages bound to default or dullards who never pick up the phone.
The European Union was the ultimate prisoners dilemma: Operating in self-interest would be more rational, but for fear of missing out in the 70s the spirit of co-operation prevailed.
There is no European Union left to leave. It is a fallacy, a mirage. It is the mortgage bond market of the Big Short or the telephone operating system at HMRC
And this was all very well when the prisoners with the dilemma were equally harmless. And rational trade-offs were made.
We pay £55 million a day to endure bureaucratic nonsense and external interference in return for trading as one nation.
But things have changed.
Europe has expanded beyond recognition, a hideous second marriage resulting in ugly step-kids who can't stand each other and would rather steal than share.
And even as the Ginger German's own people cheer the arson of another refugee hostel in Germany, and the Right are on the ascendance, Merkel is still compounding the pressures on us all.
She is planning to issue 75 million Turks with EU visas to thank them for their help in stemming the future tide of migrants from Syria.
Given 110,000 people have arrived by sea so far this year - a ten fold increase on the same period in 2015 - I'd ask 'thanks for what, exactly?'
People Trafficking and the sales of inflatable dinghies are two of the fastest growing businesses in Istanbul.
Twelve months ago I warned we should send gun boats to The Med to turn back the people traffickers.
I said, "It’s time to get Australian. Bring on the gunships, force migrants back to their shores and burn the boats.
Show me pictures of coffins, show me bodies floating in water, play violins and show me skinny people looking sad.
I still don’t care"
And nothing has changed. More have come. More will drown. And the more we learn about the actual history of these "asylum seekers" the less compassion they can expect to find as they wash up on shore.
I was interviewed under caution by the Homicide and Major Crime Command of the Met Police for daring to propose a solution but I will wait in line behind poor Lord Bramall for my apology from Sir Hogan-Howe for the damage to my illustrious reputation.
Undoubtedly I will be waiting a long time.
But when June 23 draws near and you have your chance to vote to leave Europe, my sense is we shouldn't bother about who is leading the campaign to get out and which politician is shouting the loudest.
(By the way, the BBC has received £2 million in European funding in the run up to the campaign, so don't expect to hear balance from them.)
Rather turn your gaze out to the big picture and see that whichever way we vote, The European Project has failed.
Schengen has collapsed. Our borders are open when others are not. The balance has shifted. We are no longer co-operating. We are being leeched dry.
As Macedonia rebuilds its fortress frontier, Greece has been amputated, like a gangrenous limb.
Don't ask yourself whether you want to stay in or out of Europe on June 23.
Europe's finished.
Just ask yourself which vote will best defend ourselves from the plague at our door, and how fast."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Can you hear all that babble? Brexit this and Grassroots that. Undecided about staying. Unsure what might happen if we leave.
Tugging at each other like tug of war teams, digging in with their heels to prove whose balls are bigger. Only to fall on your a*** and find there's nothing on the end of the rope.
Listening to Dave the Rave justifying why we are safer in and Bojo telling us to get the hell out.
I was getting quite caught up in the excitement of it all, watching grown ups shouting IN and OUT.
So then I stopped for a moment. And took a look around.
I stopped listening to people telling me why the Schengen zone mattered and suddenly saw a Great Wall of Wire snaking between Macedonia and Greece.
I looked at Merkel and realised instead of a world leader with kindness in her heart, there was just a ginger German - eating frites, prepared to throw Greece overboard so Germany could keep its head above water.
I watched pictures of asylum seekers in Calais, fighting authority with rocks and fire - a war of their own making - when they were supposed to be escaping the trauma of the very same.
Asylum seekers slashing wrists rather than jumping on transport to decent shelter because they had not come this close to Britain to end up living in France.
And this dodgy Union of ours, finally admitting half of these asylum seekers are no such thing. They were pleasure seekers, now boarding planes back to Baghdad because Finland is too cold and the weather not so nice.
Many are ruthless desperadoes, willing to throw their wives and kids to the bottom of the Med to have a chance of life where living is easy and family comes with benefits.
And I have stopped listening to Dave and his cronies telling me why paying benefits to foreigners multiplying like rabbits is good for Britain - when future pensioners in my country will work till 81 to pay for it.
I turned off the noise. And I saw the truth.
There is no European Union left to leave.
It is a fallacy, a mirage. It is the mortgage bond market of the Big Short or the telephone operating system at HMRC. Seeming to exist, with numbers and salaries, but actually made up of dodgy mortgages bound to default or dullards who never pick up the phone.
The European Union was the ultimate prisoners dilemma: Operating in self-interest would be more rational, but for fear of missing out in the 70s the spirit of co-operation prevailed.
There is no European Union left to leave. It is a fallacy, a mirage. It is the mortgage bond market of the Big Short or the telephone operating system at HMRC
And this was all very well when the prisoners with the dilemma were equally harmless. And rational trade-offs were made.
We pay £55 million a day to endure bureaucratic nonsense and external interference in return for trading as one nation.
But things have changed.
Europe has expanded beyond recognition, a hideous second marriage resulting in ugly step-kids who can't stand each other and would rather steal than share.
And even as the Ginger German's own people cheer the arson of another refugee hostel in Germany, and the Right are on the ascendance, Merkel is still compounding the pressures on us all.
She is planning to issue 75 million Turks with EU visas to thank them for their help in stemming the future tide of migrants from Syria.
Given 110,000 people have arrived by sea so far this year - a ten fold increase on the same period in 2015 - I'd ask 'thanks for what, exactly?'
People Trafficking and the sales of inflatable dinghies are two of the fastest growing businesses in Istanbul.
Twelve months ago I warned we should send gun boats to The Med to turn back the people traffickers.
I said, "It’s time to get Australian. Bring on the gunships, force migrants back to their shores and burn the boats.
Show me pictures of coffins, show me bodies floating in water, play violins and show me skinny people looking sad.
I still don’t care"
And nothing has changed. More have come. More will drown. And the more we learn about the actual history of these "asylum seekers" the less compassion they can expect to find as they wash up on shore.
I was interviewed under caution by the Homicide and Major Crime Command of the Met Police for daring to propose a solution but I will wait in line behind poor Lord Bramall for my apology from Sir Hogan-Howe for the damage to my illustrious reputation.
Undoubtedly I will be waiting a long time.
But when June 23 draws near and you have your chance to vote to leave Europe, my sense is we shouldn't bother about who is leading the campaign to get out and which politician is shouting the loudest.
(By the way, the BBC has received £2 million in European funding in the run up to the campaign, so don't expect to hear balance from them.)
Rather turn your gaze out to the big picture and see that whichever way we vote, The European Project has failed.
Schengen has collapsed. Our borders are open when others are not. The balance has shifted. We are no longer co-operating. We are being leeched dry.
As Macedonia rebuilds its fortress frontier, Greece has been amputated, like a gangrenous limb.
Don't ask yourself whether you want to stay in or out of Europe on June 23.
Europe's finished.
Just ask yourself which vote will best defend ourselves from the plague at our door, and how fast."
Last edited:
urmston
Well-Known Member
If Sweden and Germany Became US States, They Would be Among the Poorest States
https://mises.org/blog/if-sweden-and-germany-became-us-states-they-would-be-among-poorest-states
After 60 years the EU has failed. It now presides over high unemployment levels, increasing austerity, social and religious tensions and a fast shrinking share in the world's economy.
https://mises.org/blog/if-sweden-and-germany-became-us-states-they-would-be-among-poorest-states
After 60 years the EU has failed. It now presides over high unemployment levels, increasing austerity, social and religious tensions and a fast shrinking share in the world's economy.
blueonblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 31 Jan 2009
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- 2,522
If ever a post hit home as to the true picture of whats facing us its the above from yphrunts.
Pay no heed to the liars with an agenda, use your own judgement on the points made in this excellent post, because its you and yours that will have to live with the result, not call me Dave or the head of some organisation or other.
Pay no heed to the liars with an agenda, use your own judgement on the points made in this excellent post, because its you and yours that will have to live with the result, not call me Dave or the head of some organisation or other.
Monkfish
Well-Known Member
when your on the same side as Katie Hopkins, IDS, Galloway, Johnson, Putin, Le Penn, Farage (Corbyn?) and Gove surely you've got to be questioning your opinion?
to vote stay you've just got to learn how to vote the same way as an arsewipe like Osborne
to vote stay you've just got to learn how to vote the same way as an arsewipe like Osborne
Monkfish
Well-Known Member
If ever a post hit home as to the true picture of whats facing us its the above from yphrunts.
Pay no heed to the liars with an agenda, use your own judgement on the points made in this excellent post, because its you and yours that will have to live with the result, not call me Dave or the head of some organisation or other.
yeah quite agree, apart from the fact that nearly everything in the Hopkins diatribe is factually incorrect and the incoherent ramblings of a racist woman writing for gobshite 'man in the pub' who actually swallows up this shit
think for yourself or think like a Hopkins?
urmston
Well-Known Member
David Cameron is in favour of Turkey joining the EU.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...-opening-uk-border-to-75-million-more-people/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html
Turkey's government has just taken over a newspaper and forced it to print pro-government views.
And it borders Syria, so no more need for those rickety boats for economic migrants to reach the EU and possible access to our benefits system, health service, schools and housing.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...-will-humiliate-the-eu-again#comment-70074006
A vote to remain in the EU is a vote for Cameron, a vote for Turkey to join the EU, a vote for TTIP and a vote that zero hours contracts, poverty pay imposing big business would just love you to cast.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...-opening-uk-border-to-75-million-more-people/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html
Turkey's government has just taken over a newspaper and forced it to print pro-government views.
And it borders Syria, so no more need for those rickety boats for economic migrants to reach the EU and possible access to our benefits system, health service, schools and housing.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...-will-humiliate-the-eu-again#comment-70074006
A vote to remain in the EU is a vote for Cameron, a vote for Turkey to join the EU, a vote for TTIP and a vote that zero hours contracts, poverty pay imposing big business would just love you to cast.
Pathetic that Downing Street including Civil Servants who are supposed to be impartial are doing their absolute best to ruin Brexit campaigners. Downing Street is trying to sue one of the Brexit groups for using the NHS logo. Despite the fact that plenty of publications printed by unions and SWP have used the NHS logo countless times.
I don’t know where I stand on the issue and haven’t decided yet but I can tell already that it’s an ugly race with undemocratic antics being carried out by DS.
I don’t know where I stand on the issue and haven’t decided yet but I can tell already that it’s an ugly race with undemocratic antics being carried out by DS.
bluwes
Well-Known Member
Seems the more vote on here the bigger the percentage of outs goes up
KenTheLandlord
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 10 Mar 2009
- Messages
- 4,256
Hope it's cosy in that cell ;). Here's the deal, you give me 2 grand and I'll give you 1 grand back. I'll tell you what to spend it on and I'll insist you tell everyone this money came from me. As you are so fond of the EU I'm sure you'll be up for it.
You tell me its 2 grand then say here is another £500 but because we are not in the EU i have to take £1000 off you. Now you wander about telling everyone how you gave me £500 and i am now better off.
It is what happens, be it junior doctor's wages or tax credit cuts, with these clown's pockets.
By the way, the cell is what you are going in, we can wander about freely anywhere in the EU. Enjoy your stay.
You cannot even get an analogy right.
David Cameron is in favour of Turkey joining the EU.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...-opening-uk-border-to-75-million-more-people/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html
Turkey's government has just taken over a newspaper and forced it to print pro-government views.
And it borders Syria, so no more need for those rickety boats for economic migrants to reach the EU and possible access to our benefits system, health service, schools and housing.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...-will-humiliate-the-eu-again#comment-70074006
A vote to remain in the EU is a vote for Cameron, a vote for Turkey to join the EU, a vote for TTIP and a vote that zero hours contracts, poverty pay imposing big business would just love you to cast.
The negotiators ? Their mandate ? On behalf of ?
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/me...hours.aspx?pageID=238&nID=96120&NewsCatID=510
BigJoe#1
Well-Known Member
Whilst I concur with the sentiment and many of the points raised in yphrunts post it galls me to think it was someone as hideous as Katie Hopkins that penned it - correct me if I'm wrong.If ever a post hit home as to the true picture of whats facing us its the above from yphrunts.
Pay no heed to the liars with an agenda, use your own judgement on the points made in this excellent post, because its you and yours that will have to live with the result, not call me Dave or the head of some organisation or other.
Nonetheless we need to get above the personalities and consider the facts in the context of our own lives and make our own decisions in the broader interests of ourselves, our families and our country. Sadly for me there are far too many things wrong with the current system to persuade me to stay. Like many, no one knows what lies ahead if we leave, or indeed if we stay but I'm all for change. Just sad the personalities on both sides are so abhorrent and that hey are getting air time.
KenTheLandlord
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- Joined
- 10 Mar 2009
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- 4,256
yeah quite agree, apart from the fact that nearly everything in the Hopkins diatribe is factually incorrect and the incoherent ramblings of a racist woman writing for gobshite 'man in the pub' who actually swallows up this shit
think for yourself or think like a Hopkins?
Absolutely spot on, Monkfish.
Fuck me if that is the argument to leave it is atrocious.
urmston
Well-Known Member
How many times do we hear of services being cut because of a shortage of a few million pounds?
Libraries, care for the elderly and children's centres are just some examples.
Yet we send a staggering £23 million per day to Brussels, and that money of ours is spent on foreigners who are not homeless or starving like some poor people in Africa, but living perfectly adequate lives with housing, enough to eat, electricity and gas, cars and mobile phones.
So overall we paid in £8.5 billion more than we got back, or £23 million a day.
https://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/
Eleven days of that could stop all these cuts in Manchester -
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news/new-council-cuts-nearly-quarter-9931535
Vote Leave so our money is spent here and not on people abroad who don't really need it.
Libraries, care for the elderly and children's centres are just some examples.
Yet we send a staggering £23 million per day to Brussels, and that money of ours is spent on foreigners who are not homeless or starving like some poor people in Africa, but living perfectly adequate lives with housing, enough to eat, electricity and gas, cars and mobile phones.
So overall we paid in £8.5 billion more than we got back, or £23 million a day.
https://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/
Eleven days of that could stop all these cuts in Manchester -
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news/new-council-cuts-nearly-quarter-9931535
Vote Leave so our money is spent here and not on people abroad who don't really need it.
grunge
Well-Known Member
How many times do we hear of services being cut because of a shortage of a few million pounds?
Libraries, care for the elderly and children's centres are just some examples.
Yet we send a staggering £23 million per day to Brussels, and that money of ours is spent on foreigners who are not homeless or starving like some poor people in Africa, but living perfectly adequate lives with housing, enough to eat, electricity and gas, cars and mobile phones.
So overall we paid in £8.5 billion more than we got back, or £23 million a day.
https://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/
Eleven days of that could stop all these cuts in Manchester -
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news/new-council-cuts-nearly-quarter-9931535
Vote Leave so our money is spent here and not on people abroad who don't really need it.
Still doesn't take into consideration the benefits of being in the single market ( Tax, free trade, ease of trade in Europe, boosts to business because of those thing etc etc) mostly because those are very difficult to calculate, its just the rebates given by default.
KenTheLandlord
Well-Known Member
- Joined
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- 4,256
Sack of shit that fullfact site. Click on send to Brussels, just below the first graph and lo and behold
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_cost
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_cost
Still doesn't take into consideration the benefits of being in the single market ( Tax, free trade, ease of trade in Europe, boosts to business because of those thing etc etc) mostly because those are very difficult to calculate, its just the rebates given by default.
I see it as the In campaign's duty to provide us with those benefits quantified. How else am I meant to judge the 'boost to business' and compare that to our cost of membership? How do I know that there's even a benefit there in the first place?
Whilst that information is not available to me and the enormous costs of being in the EU are very readily accessible, I can't shift from an Out vote.
Monkfish
Well-Known Member
Still doesn't take into consideration the benefits of being in the single market ( Tax, free trade, ease of trade in Europe, boosts to business because of those thing etc etc) mostly because those are very difficult to calculate, its just the rebates given by default.
tis true, a bit like London saying it should start its own country instead of its taxes paying for people on the dole in Sunderland, carefully ignoring the fact that it relies a great deal on the country it is situated in for its wealth
don't think we will come close to getting many facts during this campaign - though I do appreciate Urmston actually giving a 23m a day figure rather than the made up 50m per day espoused by Hopkins, Carswell et al
Monkfish
Well-Known Member
I see it as the In campaign's duty to provide us with those benefits quantified. How else am I meant to judge the 'boost to business' and compare that to our cost of membership? How do I know that there's even a benefit there in the first place?
Hard to quantify indeed, but there are non-EU countries paying into the EU to be part of the market so its safe to assume some benefit does exist? Unless those Norwegians are just charitable of course
The in campaign has released plenty of information about the benefits of EU membership, because you don't believe any of it doesn't mean they haven't provided any does it?
Hard to quantify indeed, but there are non-EU countries paying into the EU to be part of the market so its safe to assume some benefit does exist? Unless those Norwegians are just charitable of course
The in campaign has released plenty of information about the benefits of EU membership, because you don't believe any of it doesn't mean they haven't provided any does it?
The point (on this EU topic) is the trade off between how much we pay in and how much we get out. It probably is facetious to claim there is no benefit to being in the EU, but if those benefits come at a ridiculous price then it probably isn't worth it. Norway and Switzerland pay in a fraction of what we do, so they evidently don't think the benefits are worth the membership fee.
I haven't seen any information quantifying the benefits of being in the EU. If it is cost effective then why wouldn't they be shouting that from the rooftops?
The graph you mentioned in urmston's link shows that we've been a net recipient in just one year of our EU membership thus far and that the trend of our net contributions is increasing.
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