EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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We need to:
1. Regain the primacy of the British parliament.
2. Regain the primacy of the British supreme court.
3. Regain the right to negotiate our own trade deals.
4. Regain the right to control the number of people coming to this country.
5. Regain the right to determine the skills this country needs and admit people according to need and not location.
6. Repatriate the 10 billion pound per year membership fee and spend it on the priorities of the British people.
Cameron's renegotiation comes nowhere near to addressing these fundamental issues and so a no vote is the only way.
 
urmston said:
The Hungarian referendum will be more interesting, especially as the result is a foregone conclusion.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ban-will-call-referendum-on-eu-refugee-quotas

Borders and fences are going up all over the EU and Brussels will be powerless to do anything about it.

The EU is becoming irrelevant because of changing circumstances. Member states never really cared about unity but only what they could get of membership, and as the EU lurches from crisis to crisis this is becoming ever more obvious.
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It's amazing how Deutchland 83 has rewritten many people's understanding of the origins of the EU.

The original drivers were closer cooperation to avoid future wars!
 
hgblue said:
We need to:
1. Regain the primacy of the British parliament.
2. Regain the primacy of the British supreme court.
3. Regain the right to negotiate our own trade deals.
4. Regain the right to control the number of people coming to this country.
5. Regain the right to determine the skills this country needs and admit people according to need and not location.
6. Repatriate the 10 billion pound per year membership fee and spend it on the priorities of the British people.
Cameron's renegotiation comes nowhere near to addressing these fundamental issues and so a no vote is the only way.
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There is a bit of a gap in your argument. Migration figures on people coming to the UK (Oliver Hawkins, House of Commons Library) show 45 percent of migrants were from outside the EU, 42 percent were from the EU and 13 percent were returning Britains. So leaving the EU would have no impact on managing the immigration of almost six in every ten people!
 
Its not "My" video, but its easy enough to check the facts on the internet before giving credence to the lie it was all in the name of peace, you will be chipping in with "Think of the children" next.
 
urmston said:
The Hungarian referendum will be more interesting, especially as the result is a foregone conclusion.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ban-will-call-referendum-on-eu-refugee-quotas

Borders and fences are going up all over the EU and Brussels will be powerless to do anything about it.

The EU is becoming irrelevant because of changing circumstances. Member states never really cared about unity but only what they could get of membership, and as the EU lurches from crisis to crisis this is becoming ever more obvious.
Click to expand...
That's a good point (which you do occasionally manage). When being in creates more problems than it delivers benefits, the whole outlook will change. I'm convinced we're a stalking horse for a few other countries that secretly want significant changes but who don't want to be seen to be rocking the boat.
 
Moriati said:
Aren’t the markets getting into a bit of a tizzy about nothing? After all, if Britain leaves the European Union, they will still have to be a member of the EFTA and therefore will still have to abide by European Union laws and pay EU levies.

http://www.efta.int/eea/eu-programmes/application-finances/eea-efta-budget

Why would leaving the EU make any difference to the UK economy, exept for the appearance that Britain is no longer under Brussel’s thumb? Because Brexit will only mean that Britain loses its right to vote on laws that it will have to abide by.

The You tube clip is a very enlightening look at the EU Agenda. If you can’t spare 35 minutes fast forward to 15 mins in and stick with it for 10 mins.
I can confirm that the unelected regional assemblies have been operational for at least 7 years.

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I agree that the impact on the economy would more or less balance itself out. We would end up paying levies like you say and probably increase incentives to international manufacturers etc to locate here.
 
blueonblue said:
Its not "My" video, but its easy enough to check the facts on the internet before giving credence to the lie it was all in the name of peace, you will be chipping in with "Think of the children" next.
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Haha. I am taking about the stated aims of the founders of the Europan Cole and Steel Community.

This week 13 of our military leaders have come out and said membership of the EU is good for our security. I am tempted to believe them more than your video (that I will have a look at tonight when I've got wifi access).
 
The original drivers as I see it:

1. France - Wanted the rest of the community to shore up their inefficient farmers at the expense of farmers everywhere else.
2. Germany - Wanted power as they had failed to get it in two world wars.
3. Luxembourg - Small country who could not fail to benefit.
4. Italy - Awash with corruption and dirt politics who thought we will have some of this and line our pockets.
5. Belgium/Netherlands - Frightened of Germany is all I can think of.

Since then the whole thing has grown into a monster with that many Euro-Politicians and bureaucrats involved I shudder to think of the numbers.

You only have to look at commerce where companies have got so large that they become unwieldy and end up selling off parts or splitting up into more manageable units.

We joined on the pretext of it being a trade association with no import/export duties - not because we wanted to join a super power with a faceless government dictating how we should live.

I am sure we will be better OUT!
 
Moriati said:
Aren’t the markets getting into a bit of a tizzy about nothing? After all, if Britain leaves the European Union, they will still have to be a member of the EFTA and therefore will still have to abide by European Union laws and pay EU levies.

http://www.efta.int/eea/eu-programmes/application-finances/eea-efta-budget

Why would leaving the EU make any difference to the UK economy, exept for the appearance that Britain is no longer under Brussel’s thumb? Because Brexit will only mean that Britain loses its right to vote on laws that it will have to abide by.

The You tube clip is a very enlightening look at the EU Agenda. If you can’t spare 35 minutes fast forward to 15 mins in and stick with it for 10 mins.
I can confirm that the unelected regional assemblies have been operational for at least 7 years.
Click to expand...

If we leave the EU we will have to negotiate a trading deal with the EU which will enable us to trade with EU countries however we won't have any say in how they trade with each other potentially allowing them to compete with UK business on favourable terms. As an example, if a UK company sold something to one in France, a German company would have the ability to compete on better terms than the UK company potentially losing the UK company business.

Norway and others are a EFTA participating state yet they have no say in the rules governing that participation. When you consider over 40% of our exports go to the EU and hundreds of transnationals conduct business across the EU from/to here it's quite a risky statement to say it won't affect the economy. There is no evidence that our economy will benefit in any way from leaving the EU as a whole.

The only evidence so far I have read is that it will be detrimental to the economy at least to some degree however we can never truly know until it goes ahead. A lot depends on our ability to negotiate new deals elsewhere too but who are we planning on negotiating with... India are not a 3rd world country anymore and are better than us in many other areas, the same goes for China etc... Our main strength's now are in financial services and high tech industries where trade is considered global or at least continental, all of those businesses have said leaving the EU will harm business.

Forget the EU agenda, this is far bigger than that and represents a constitutional choice we have never seen before. It would be a shame if some choose a single route based upon absolutely zero evidence and assumption.

I haven't decided yet personally but I won't take my vote based upon migration, some blokes in Brussels or anything else... It will be based upon what I think is best overall.
 
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All well and good, but then we would be able to trade freely with the rest of the (94%) world market on our terms, and while you can say we sell 40% of output to the EU, we are the EU`s single biggest customer running a trade deposit of about double, if they want to start in on a trade war with unfair tariffs then its they who will lose out.

Nor should you ignore the harm vast numbers of none skilled worker do to this country, or the simple fact we have no control who comes over our borders.

The biggest single reason to vote no is the complete lose of any say as to how this country is run, the total lose of the rule of law being separate from the state, where as under the British constitution governments have to obey the law, we still have rights like trial by jury, the right to remain silent, no taxation without representation, in short we are a free people under British law by right of birth, that will most certainly not be the case under the constitution the EU is trying to bring in.
 
Len Rum said:
Same applies to Gideon in 2010-2015.
He let his borrowing targets rip to ensure a general election victory.
If there's another crash then he also will guilty of "leaving no money for a rainy day".
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Coaxing an economy back to life whilst reducing the deficit isn't quite the same but I understand your point.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Frankly I very very much doubt it, but honestly It's pretty irellevant , you could be another Harvard educated nobel laureate, a modern day Adam Smith - in your own mind and in your forum persona and good luck to you if you believe it - that's half the battle.

you could also claim to have a 16 inch cock and a fine golden head of hair with 30 inch biceps and I would have little desire to verify.

If you were so knowledgable you would know just how wrong "genius world leading economists" often are, you would also know how long major infrastructure takes to have a serious impact fiscally.

Where I won't disagree is that governments in the 90's and noughties of all political hues wasted huge amounts of money in frivolous tax cuts and frivolous spending and if all the hay is eaten in the summer there is nothing left for winter.
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You were the bloke telling other posters they didn't understand economics and failing to realise they were actually making a good point.
 
blueonblue said:
All well and good, but then we would be able to trade freely with the rest of the (94%) world market on our terms, and while you can say we sell 40% of output to the EU, we are the EU`s single biggest customer running a trade deposit of about double, if they want to start in on a trade war with unfair tariffs then its they who will lose out.

Nor should you ignore the harm vast numbers of none skilled worker do to this country, or the simple fact we have no control who comes over our borders.

The biggest single reason to vote no is the complete lose of any say as to how this country is run, the total lose of the rule of law being separate from the state, where as under the British constitution governments have to obey the law, we still have rights like trial by jury, the right to remain silent, no taxation without representation, in short we are a free people under British law by right of birth, that will most certainly not be the case under the constitution the EU is trying to bring in.
Click to expand...

What utter garbage you write.
All civil trials taking place in the United Kingdom proceed without a jury and are heard by a judge sitting alone, commonly known as a district judge or, for more serious matters or appeals, a circuit judge.

Summary criminal trials may be heard by a single district judge (Magistrates' Court) or by a panel of at least two, but more usually three, magistrates.

You no longer have the right to remain silent as a neutral stance. Juries can interpret your silence as they wish.

There are thousands of people not on the electoral role paying income tax and VAT. Being taxed without representation.

In the UK we are all born subjects of the monarch.

Best of all your naivety in claiming govts hve to obey the law! Apart from Wars, imprisonment, extraordinary renditioning and kidnap presumably.
 
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