EU referendum

[EalingBlue2]

He's a ****. Typical Benelux type.

fucking useless at looking after themselves without us. Like the French.

I'm sure some faux antipodean **** will be along soon to tell us why we are wrong though by invoking some metaphor which is total bollocks.

Great intelligent debate and great stalking again SWP - though as an expert on Faux as you are, again I take your point as very well made.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Yes and if we judge the law as unjust then that's tough shit in your world , there is nothing we can do.

There is in exactly the same way as if a judge, or a white hall mandarin or whatever does things in this country, sometimes it could be quicker than waiting for an election , sometimes slower. However in the UK you need to get the majority of the people on the majority of constituencies, in Euorpe it is not so clean but you may not need the majority in all countries to make change meaning it is not as clean. Ultimately the populations of Europe still elect their governments that make up the key councils and make the key decisions .

 

[EalingBlue2]

None of the above - well possibly raise interest rate increases sooner rather than later.

Reduce net inward migration to below the 1 million every 3 years that we have now. Not possible in the EU.

Which I have said dozens of times in this thread is fine if you have a plan of how to replace the productivity and stabilising of the ageing population and therefore long term deficit stalling that immigration brings.

Immigration is there not because politicians love it but because they aren't prepared to invest in infrastructure and education to seriously improve productivity as short term it is too expensive and also because it helps all the population and both parties are too self interested. It is also there because the UK has a surface deficit heading towards 2 trillion and pensions etc make it much bigger in reality, young immigrants at least help maintain the Ponzi scheme.

As I have said before controlled immigration is fine if you have some policies and strategies to fill then gap, if you actually honestly address the issues .

So what would you do to address an ageing population , to address health costs growing beyond our ability to pay, stagnant productivity (without immigration) , would you tax and invest. Would you lick the can down the road. Serious question how do you address the fundamental issues that are there without the easy tap of immigration and will people accept the short term hits to their lives and long term responsibilities it brings.

 

[EalingBlue2]

I'm adamant that after reading the above, they want us to vote out....

They certainly do understand the British mentality and I will even more so vote out now that **** is threatening me.

Luxembourg bastard.

Bring it on, ship all the EU cunts out on boats right now. Rather live on a street full of Pakistanis than Polish anyway

Maybe they do want the UK out, maybe it would force Greece out, maybe a good share of the default debt goes outside the EU, maybe there are companies wanting to gain an unfair advantage over Britains company, maybe they believe that they can replace the 9 billion and some.

I suspect he is just trying to make a point about how serious the vote is, a point that doesn't need making as I think everyone is well aware. Also not just a dent against British psyche I don't think this sort of thing plays well on any countries voters as whether true or not it would require an admission of weakness that no one likes

 

[hilts]

Take a look at the graph depicting how much money countries put into the EU pot and how much they get in return. We are being abused by our very own people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/11221427/EU-budget-what-you-need-to-know.html

I believe for every pound we put in we get ten back, plus all immigrants are doctors and add to our multi cultural society, the stay in campaign have given us leaflets just in case we weren't aware of this

 

[EalingBlue2]

Totally agree on all your points. I never thought I'd be capable of disliking any other British politician as much as I disliked Thatcher. Then along comes manufactured Dave. So fucking plastic and shallow in every sense of the word it's unbelievable.

BTW, any links to the clip you mention? Would be good to showcase it on here... plus I'd like to see it in any case!

I can't even agree with you on that lol apart from the Thatcher part, I always hated Tebbit, IDS and Howard most after Thatcher. But I will admit Cameron gets little coverage here so I don't have to see or hear much of him , always seemed to me deeply I inspirational and criminally short term - even this whole referendum was only because he chose expediency and conwardice over trying to win an argument in the Tory party.

 

[hilts]

Which I have said dozens of times in this thread is fine if you have a plan of how to replace the productivity and stabilising of the ageing population and therefore long term deficit stalling that immigration brings.

Immigration is there not because politicians love it but because they aren't prepared to invest in infrastructure and education to seriously improve productivity as short term it is too expensive and also because it helps all the population and both parties are too self interested. It is also there because the UK has a surface deficit heading towards 2 trillion and pensions etc make it much bigger in reality, young immigrants at least help maintain the Ponzi scheme.

As I have said before controlled immigration is fine if you have some policies and strategies to fill then gap, if you actually honestly address the issues .

So what would you do to address an ageing population , to address health costs growing beyond our ability to pay, stagnant productivity (without immigration) , would you tax and invest. Would you lick the can down the road. Serious question how do you address the fundamental issues that are there without the easy tap of immigration and will people accept the short term hits to their lives and long term responsibilities it brings.

A band aid solution from a guy on a different continent, splendid

 

[EalingBlue2]

A band aid solution from a guy on a different continent, splendid

I asked TC for his thoughts, didn't offer a solution. So are you suggesting a band aid solution as preferable?

What would your band aid solution be? Pretend there isn't a cut?

 

[grunge]

Take a look at the graph depicting how much money countries put into the EU pot and how much they get in return. We are being abused by our very own people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/11221427/EU-budget-what-you-need-to-know.html

When you add the rebate on that it we get a About the same back as other countries.

 

[hilts]

I asked TC for his thoughts, didn't offer a solution. So are you suggesting a band aid solution as preferable?

What would your band aid solution be? Pretend there isn't a cut?

I was watching question time Thursday and it went how it always goes, like on here, ukip bloke poles stealing our jobs, lib dem and labour immigration is wonderful look at the nhs, Tory bitch best to be in and have a say, this has been going on forever. Fuckwits with cliches, is the answer to people living longer an ever increasing population, erm no buts lets go with it for a while.

There was a left wing guy on there who wanted out of Europe for democratic reasons bit might vote in because he didn't want Nasty right wing tories making decisions, what the fuck can you do with people like that.

 

[EalingBlue2]

I was watching question time Thursday and it went how it always goes, like on here, ukip bloke poles stealing our jobs, lib dem and labour immigration is wonderful look at the nhs, Tory bitch best to be in and have a say, this has been going on forever. Fuckwits with cliches, is the answer to people living longer an ever increasing population, erm no buts lets go with it for a while.

There was a left wing guy on there who wanted out of Europe for democratic reasons bit might vote in because he didn't want Nasty right wing tories making decisions, what the fuck can you do with people like that.

The answer to living longer has to be bigger population as the only logical alternative is the end of humanity as eventually the birth rate would have to become so low as to be unable to sustain a population that ever ages. If you don't have savings and you have a growing debt then you need long term solutions . Britain and the world should be addressing these not hiding from the real issues by starting wars in Syria and arguing about Brexit.

You hit the nail on the head about politicians they are fucked because they have become so short term, politics is about the news in an hours time and the next election. The country, the future doesn't matter anymore so all they do is kick the can down the road.

I think the vote is as you describe above a vote on the least bad alternative let's be honest many would vote for Arsenal to win the league even if you hate them if the alternative was the Rags.

 

[BigJoe#1]

I can't even agree with you on that lol apart from the Thatcher part, I always hated Tebbit, IDS and Howard most after Thatcher. But I will admit Cameron gets little coverage here so I don't have to see or hear much of him , always seemed to me deeply I inspirational and criminally short term - even this whole referendum was only because he chose expediency and conwardice over trying to win an argument in the Tory party.

So how much credibility do you give to Dave?

Does this not illustrate how unreliable and untrustworthy he is? Would you follow this man into battle? I wouldn't trust a single word he said.

EDIT: I should say I DONT trust a single word he says!

 

[EalingBlue2]

So how much credibility do you give to Dave?

Does this not illustrate how unreliable and untrustworthy he is? Would you follow this man into battle? I wouldn't trust a single word he said.

about the same as i would give Boris johnson - next to none.

 

[hilts]

The answer to living longer has to be bigger population as the only logical alternative is the end of humanity as eventually the birth rate would have to become so low as to be unable to sustain a population that ever ages. If you don't have savings and you have a growing debt then you need long term solutions . Britain and the world should be addressing these not hiding from the real issues by starting wars in Syria and arguing about Brexit.

You hit the nail on the head about politicians they are fucked because they have become so short term, politics is about the news in an hours time and the next election. The country, the future doesn't matter anymore so all they do is kick the can down the road.

I think the vote is as you describe above a vote on the least bad alternative let's be honest many would vote for Arsenal to win the league even if you hate them if the alternative was the Rags.

You must see the catch 22 of an ever growing population?

 

[EalingBlue2]

You must see the catch 22 of an ever growing population?

It is one giant Ponzi scheme that can only be paid for by more of the same unless long term politics and hard decisions that effect people's livelihoods today are communicated , then made and accepted.

 

[YPhrunts]

When you add the rebate on that it we get a About the same back as other countries.

But we are still massive net contributors by 10.8 billion, rebate or not.

 

[hilts]

It is one giant Ponzi scheme that can only be paid for by more of the same unless long term politics and hard decisions that effect people's livelihoods today are communicated , then made and accepted.

And how would staying in the eu achieve this?

 

[YPhrunts]

I believe for every pound we put in we get ten back, plus all immigrants are doctors and add to our multi cultural society, the stay in campaign have given us leaflets just in case we weren't aware of this

I know your comment is tongue in cheek but this bit of propaganda that says we get 10 quid back for every quid we put in is utter bollox. What it really means is that we pay in 10.8 billion pounds just so that we can trade with people that are desperate to trade with us. It's fucking mental.

 

[BigJoe#1]

But we are still massive net contributors by 10.8 billion, rebate or not.

This figure is correct and undisputed. After the rebate and the EU investment in the UK, we are somewhere between £8.5 and £10.8 bn net contributors. Taking the £8.5 figure, we could subsidise the Steel works on the UK and still have £8.135bn left to invest. PLUS this assumes the current EU investments would continue to be made by the UK Government (a risky and dangerous assumption I know).

Just think of the benefits that would pay.

1. Employment in an employment black spot area
2. Massively reduced benefits bill
3. Support businesses continue to work and produce.

These alone in tax returns would probably save and return on the £365m that was invested... what on earth is here not to like about this?

 

[hilts]

I know your comment is tongue in cheek but this bit of propaganda that says we get 10 quid back for every quid we put in is utter bollox. What it really means is that we pay in 10.8 billion pounds just so that we can trade with people that are desperate to trade with us. It's fucking mental.

What happens is we have an ever increasing population so wages stay low which is great for the rich, and we need more houses but they ain't getting built so people pay higher rents so they need to work harder, which helps the rich, and the nhs gets stretched so people wait longer so people join bupa which helps the rich, and schools have too many kids so people want their kids to go to a nice school in a nice area which helps the rich. And this ever growing population get stressed,Ill,old and the government pension scheme of 2% is laughable so they have to work longer which helps the rich.

In the meantime this population has kids who want educating, health care, jobs, cars, computers and all of modern life's luxury and we start the merry go round again.

And then one day we look around and if you have exploited the situation life is rosy but the rest is fucked, we have become the USA and if you Are living in Manhattan it's the greatest place in the world, but most live in Baltimore and to be honest you could be in any shithole in the world.

So how do we stop this, easy we need more people which is why the countries with the highest populations have the greatest poverty