EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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FanchesterCity said:
Everybody would prefer a better education.
Smaller classes don't MAKE a better education (but there's a correlation, of course). A lack of immigrants doesn't MAKE a better education either. It's not the volume of children we're trying to educate, it's the mismatch between number of children and the available resources we have.
I entirely hear what you're saying and yes, we just can't sustain large volumes of immigration without scaling the number of schools and teachers. The 'quality' of education is another matter. I would readily accept that sometimes, in trying to scale up, the quality of education can suffer... rushing through young teachers, cutting corners etc. But the scaling up isn't causal.

The most immediate fix is as clear as day 'limit immigration to numbers we can handle'. I would actually suggest THAT is the short term measure though... turn off the stopcock! The longer term measure is to decide on how much immigration we want / need and implement controls to regulate the flow according to our needs.

The EU won't let us control the flow (for EU citizens, which is a problem) but euqally we've demonstrated that we ourselves aren't competent enough to regulate the flow anyway, because we've failed to do so for the migrants outside of the EU who WHERE under our (lack of) control!
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A couple of things.....

1. A major problem for education, especially in the early formative years, in high immigration areas is the fact you have children who don't have English as their first language and you do have classes that have several different languages spoken. How can you expect quality education to be delivered in these circumstances. Call me a Xenophobe if you like but I did not and I would not allow my child's education to be affected in this way.

2. We have skilled jobs that need doing, I assume (I don't know) that the posts that are filled by non-EU immigrants are the posts that we need filled, I do exclude the refugees in that assumption. I wouldn't even know for certain if said refugees are included in that number. The majority of EU migrants that are coming across here are probably unskilled and taking the appropriate jobs. I genuinely know they try to work when they can, but don't run away with the notion that the EU migrants are " paying their way" by paying their taxes. I would guess that the majority of unskilled EU migrants barely earn enough to pay any tax. It's the unskilled EU migrants that have the right to come here that we need to deal with, not the highly skilled, high earning non EU migrants.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
A couple of things.....

1. A major problem for education, especially in the early formative years, in high immigration areas is the fact you have children who don't have English as their first language and you do have classes that have several different languages spoken. How can you expect quality education to be delivered in these circumstances. Call me a Xenophobe if you like but I did not and I would not allow my child's education to be affected in this way.

2. We have skilled jobs that need doing, I assume (I don't know) that the posts that are filled by non-EU immigrants are the posts that we need filled, I do exclude the refugees in that assumption. I wouldn't even know for certain if said refugees are included in that number. The majority of EU migrants that are coming across here are probably unskilled and taking the appropriate jobs. I genuinely know they try to work when they can, but don't run away with the notion that the EU migrants are " paying their way" by paying their taxes. I would guess that the majority of unskilled EU migrants barely earn enough to pay any tax. It's the unskilled EU migrants that have the right to come here that we need to deal with, not the highly skilled, high earning non EU migrants.
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I know loads of lads who work on building sites from the EU they do 6/ 8 weeks at a time then they take all the money they havè earned back to thare home countries they do work hard but it doesn't do anything for our economy its the skilled workers we need .
 
bezer57 said:
I know loads of lads who work on building sites from the EU they do 6/ 8 weeks at a time then they take all the money they havè earned back to thare home countries they do work hard but it doesn't do anything for our economy its the skilled workers we need .
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I am German, we get lots of EU builders from the UK doing the that. Auf wiedersehen analphabet!
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Sorry if this comes across as bit Russel Brand/Eddie Izzard
But how about we remain with our neighbors to ensure a better Europe for everyone. Not run away and potentially risk the break up of Great Britian. If other country's in the EU are struggling we as a rich nation help likewise they would help us. We fought to help our allies. Not to distance them away from us. The EU has become to buerocratic and yes it's not ideal at times. But come on it's really not that bad!!!! We do control our laws, we have kept our currency, we do control our health care, we have tightened up on immigration benefits (more needs to be done on this).Yes there's plenty more work to do. But opting out now is a weak backwards position and it's a fantasy to think we will go back to a age where everyone was English and all was rosy.
- Lets fight to keep Europe working, let's fight to keep the peace , let's fight to keep Britain!
Let's face it in 50,70,100 years time there will be no borders , everyone will be free to live where they want in this world and everyone will be integrated by colour, religion and nationality. That's what humanity HAS to strive for. That should be a future we all want. Not building walls, turning backs and having a attitude of 'I'm alright Jack' - It could be us that breaks up the EU and Britian with the trade and the economy suffering as a result. That is a GREAT shame. All for what ?! So those pesky immigrants/refugees striving for a better life don't get in ? Pah !

Vote Remain

Up the hammers.
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Let's hold hands with ISIL too.

Think you've inhaled too many bubbles, mate.
 
I really hope Labour voters do in fact vote for Leave in much higher numbers than the arrogantly complacent remain camp thought was possible. Not unlike in recent elections, many Labour leaders take the working class for fools who'll just do what we're told.
 
SWP's back said:
Yep. You weren't wrong at all on your premise before. I was just pointing out that B, R and even C are struggling. (One can't put ANY belief in the figures China puts out as its a 'managed' economy and says what it wants).

Having said that China used more concrete in 2000-10 than the US used in the 20th Century. Always makes me say wow when I think of that.
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Most of the experts think the Chinese exaggerate by around 1% which is substantial, but they are still adding Switzerland to their economy every year and at 85% bigger than at the collapse of Lehman brothers some of the slowing in growth is scale driven and by the fact the population is stabilising also. Some of the China stats as you say are incredible especially some of the cities .

The one that gets me though is there are more people alive today than have ever died
 
A major issue for me is the Non EU migration. Until our Government control this and restrict the numbers then this too will inextricably change the nature of this Country even more than EU migration. Large areas of Manchester now feel totally alien to me. However to raise this results in being called 'racist',little englander,bigot etc. These slurs are aimed at sending us back into our shell where we are too afraid to speak our concerns. We need to be able to voice this without being labelled racist.
 
Silva_Spell said:
I really hope Labour voters do in fact vote for Leave in much higher numbers than the arrogantly complacent remain camp thought was possible. Not unlike in recent elections, many Labour leaders take the working class for fools who'll just do what we're told.
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Sadly history all over the world shoes that the above is very often true. Working class poor white southern Americans have for decades voted for the party of Wall Street whose main policy has been cutting tax for the wealthy etc etc . When the rich and powerful us religion, nationalism etc as tools millions fall for it, always have always will
 
A
Mëtal Bikër said:
middle-finger-jonny-doomsda.jpg






Fuck Europe
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ll those words for so long and now you show your true colours?
 
IanBishopsHaircut said:
To be fair I think I've crossed paths with Metal Biker before..so am familiar with his stance..it's not pretty..this referendum has made very strange bedfellows
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Nope, can't say we have mate.

If you want to know my stance on the European Union, you could ask me directly.
 
AlgarveBlu said:
This whole referendum has been dominated by stats but ultimately I think it's people's instincts that will win the day as your latest stat proves you can't trust stats....didn't Peter rei squeeze gascoignes nuts in a game at Maine road ?
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That is the mentality that nearly destroyed the world in the noughties, every stat showed the risk , showed the bubble, showed the facts. It people chose to believe what they wanted to believe and pushed on and on. This is what the biggest danger with Brexit is, people ignoring reality, believing a fantasy picture painted got them and then things will come home to roost. Job losses , credit crunches etc are all stats but every one of those stats has a reality behind it.
 
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