EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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Prestwich_Blue said:
The UK government could quite easily move the NHS towards mostly private provision but at least you'd have the chance to vote in an election to support or remove that government.

Under the TTIP (an agreement which will undoubtedly be concluded in some form) the European health market would potentially be open to US providers.

Another potential risk is that there would be common standards for pharmaceutical products and these would not be as stringent as they are currently. Once ratified, we would have little or no control over this.

So people saying that remaining in the EU is the safe option are either lying or simply do not understand what awaits.
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Simon Stevens (the guy who runs the NHS) has said the better outcome for the NHS is the one where the economy is healthier. That could be In or Out.

The only lies I have seen on this subject is the headline on the Brexiters battle bus. It also shows a fundamental misunderstanding on how Health Services are developing. It is cuts in Social Care budgets that are key factor affecting the NHS so looking at one budget in isolation doesn't get us very far.
 
TRUE BLUE NO1 said:
mate, I disagree with using any terrible, tragic event for political gain but we cant deny, she was killed for what she believed....which was "stay". You could argue that she'd still be here today if she hadnt supported staying in the EU....and from reading about the type of person she was, it seems clear to me, she would stand up and be counted and want everyone to know she was a REMAIN supporter....I didnt know her but when you read/hear what people are saying, she was the type of person that would want people to know what she was stood for and I dont have an issue with the "in" campaign saying what Jo believed in, if they doing it in a respectful way because it seems she would do the same herself if she was here!...in my opinion!
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This.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
For all those saying it's just rabid right-wingers who want out, have a read of this:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/pa...socialists-support-neoliberal-undemocratic-eu

And to prove members have little freedom of action: This adds to what I was saying earlier, that's it's much easier to close UK factories than those in other EU countries as Tata's European business has stayed largely unaffected. So it's hardly a level-playing field even though we're in the EU. We make it easier for companies to shut plants yet the EU ties both hands behind our back if we want to rescue them.
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It's utter bullshit that the government couldn't have helped SSI and Tata UK. Pretty much every major steel producing company does so. Germany given them tax free/reduced tax energy, Italy support projects to 'lessen the environmental impact' to the tune of about 1bn Euros and the French fund R&D. The government didn't help because it didn't want to, not because of some misguided view on EU legislation.
 
The Guardian has been pretty pro-Remain but their Economics Editor Larry Elliott penned this piece a couple of days ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...aving-eu-is-not-being-heard-referendum-brexit

He makes the case that there is a good financial argument for leaving, which isn't being made. The Euro has been (in his view) a monumental blunder but the only plan the EU has for correcting it is greater Union, rather than leaving each country free to make the financial decisions that best suit their individual need. He also makes the point that the EU started with good intentions initially but is now steadily becoming more neo-liberal in its approach.

And if you think that the prospect of greater union is a scare tactic, then Google 'The five presidents' report' which was the case made last year by 5 senior EU figures for closer monetary and political integration. This is the plan and the only thing stopping it currently is the worry about the European public reaction. As ever with the EU, if they can't do something openly, they'll do it by stealth.
 
without a dream said:
It's utter bullshit that the government couldn't have helped SSI and Tata UK. Pretty much every major steel producing company does so. Germany given them tax free/reduced tax energy, Italy support projects to 'lessen the environmental impact' to the tune of about 1bn Euros and the French fund R&D. The government didn't help because it didn't want to, not because of some misguided view on EU legislation.
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The government did help by taking 25% of Tata Steel UK. But that may well land them in trouble with the EU, which has already penalised Belgium and Holland for helping their steel industry. The EU rules are quite clear; no state aid to industry is allowed.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
The government did help by taking 25% of Tata Steel UK. But that may well land them in trouble with the EU, which has already penalised Belgium and Holland for helping their steel industry. The EU rules are quite clear; no state aid to industry is allowed.
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Unless it would prevent a disturbance to the economy, is strategically important or the aid is in line with EU2020 visions. It was more than possible for them to 'bail them out', they just had to be a little clever about it.
 
Cheers for all the cartoons @yep - they are really handy for somebody like me who doesn't really care enough to delve too deep into the pros and cons of either side. An amusing caricature explains it all much more clearly.
On that basis, I'm voting remain.
 
TRUE BLUE NO1 said:
mate, I disagree with using any terrible, tragic event for political gain but we cant deny, she was killed for what she believed....which was "stay".
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Utter nonsense of the worse kind, she was murdered by a nutter who saw that she spent most of her time campaigning for refugee`s, maybe he thought she should be looking out more for her voters as that was the job she was elected to do, maybe his god told him to do it, maybe the simple truth is he has mental problems.
I`m sure she was a good woman who believed in what she did, but to this guy he saw her actions in another light because he is batshit crazy not because she wanted to stay in the f*cking EU, an trying to make that any kind of point is bollocks.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
The government did help by taking 25% of Tata Steel UK. But that may well land them in trouble with the EU, which has already penalised Belgium and Holland for helping their steel industry. The EU rules are quite clear; no state aid to industry is allowed.
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As you stated PB( The EU rules are quite clear; no state aid to industry is allowed).Now while i do understand the eu rules,
Why then is the eu rule ok to Bail-out the banking industry...
 
blueonblue said:
Utter nonsense of the worse kind, she was murdered by a nutter who saw that she spent most of her time campaigning for refugee`s, maybe he thought she should be looking out more for her voters as that was the job she was elected to do, maybe his god told him to do it, maybe the simple truth is he has mental problems.
I`m sure she was a good woman who believed in what she did, but to this guy he saw her actions in another light because he is batshit crazy not because she wanted to stay in the f*cking EU, an trying to make that any kind of point is bollocks.
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He had mental problems for sure, but if the leave campaign had not spewed the bile it has over the last few months maybe he wouldn't have believed in what he did

He thought he was doing the 'right thing' - where did he get that idea from?
 
Monkfish said:
He had mental problems for sure, but if the leave campaign had not spewed the bile it has over the last few months maybe he wouldn't have believed in what he did

He thought he was doing the 'right thing' - where did he get that idea from?
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Bullshit, you don't know where he got the idea from anymore than i do.

What is known is the simple fact that he's a fucking not-right and has been since the 1990's.

You're using this as a point scoring tool, simple as that.
 
mackenzie said:
Do you honestly feel that a Tory government (and they will get even worse if BJ or Gove is PM) gives a shit? I don't. Without PR in this country we have no real democracy. Forget the EU for a moment, the PR question here has never really been addressed.
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PR would have had a far more right wing government than the one in a present.
 
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