EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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Will be voting later with wife and we are both out, as are several friends in the village, including a Nationalist SNP voter who cant believe the position his party has taken over Europe and the EU.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Can we, the citizens of the 'European Union' remove a corrupt Commissioner?
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No they are 'rotated' every five years. Without a manifesto, just an on going argument about what regulations to pass. And that passes as democracy. And the ECJ rules supreme and can push through its laws with no resistance. That's democracy too, evidently.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Possibly because she's worried that in 10 years time, once TTIP is agreed, she'll be working for Serco Health Services or some US based health care group on a zero hours contract. And if she doesn't like it, they'll replace her with some foreigner who's less well-trained and will work longer for 25% less.

Meanwhile her bosses, who all used to be her bosses in the old NHS and were telling her to vote Remain, are on nice fat contracts with bonuses and share options.

At a guess.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
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For the record, here are just a few of the views on the NHS – and other things – of leading members of the Brexit campaigns:

Michael Gove (co-convener Vote Leave) – in 2009 called for the dismantling of the NHS. Link here.

Matthew Elliott (chief executive Vote Leave) – is the founder of the Taxpayers Alliance – which has long argued for the break-up of the NHS and private competition in healthcare. Link here.

Philip Davies (Better Off Out Campaign) – once blocked plans to reverse private sector involvement in the NHS by talking out (or filibustering) a private member’s bill. Link here.

Dominic Cummings (campaign director Vote Leave) – once said less privileged children do worse at school due to what he called their “inferior genes”. Link here.

Dominic Raab (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – as recently as last month advocated privatising the NHS. Link here.

Peter Bone (campaign committee member Grassroots Out) – thinks the NHS should be forced to open up to US companies in the infamous TTIP trade deal. Link here.

Nigel Dodds (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – once campaigned for services to be legally withheld from people for being gay. Link here.

Steve Baker (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – in 2013 praised healthcare provision for the working classes in Britain before the NHS. Link here.

Douglas Carswell (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – in 2005 called for the “denationalising” and privatisation of healthcare provision in Britain. Link here.

Iain Duncan Smith (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – once blamed housing shortages on “pressure” from “the ethnic population”. Link here.

Lord Forsyth (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – in 2008, before Osborne and Cameron, was the first senior Tory to call for austerity and cuts in public services in response to the banking crisis. Link here.

Boris Johnson (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – once had to apologise for an article in a magazine he edited which claimed “blacks have lower IQs”. Link here.

Liam Fox (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – has called for “huge restrictions” on abortion, voted against same-sex marriage, and called for cuts to what he called the “wasteful” NHS. Link here.

Chris Grayling (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – in 2010 he said hotel owners should be able to bar gay people. Link here.

Dan Hannan (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – in 2009 called for the dismantling of the NHS, calling it a “relic”. Links here and here.

Lord Lawson (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – has argued pollution and global warming are good for the environment and cyclists are damaging London! Links here and here.

Priti Patel (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – thinks cutting disabled people’s support by £30 a week is justified. Link here.

John Whittingdale (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – thinks gay marriage will cause “distress”. Link here.

Andrea Leadsom (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – thinks the NHS should be forced to open up to US companies in the infamous TTIP trade deal. Link here.

Philip Hollobone (campaign committee member Grassroots Out) – also once blocked plans to reverse private sector involvement in the NHS by talking out (or filibustering) a private member’s bill. Also thinks the NHS should be forced to open up to US companies in the infamous TTIP trade deal. Links here and here.

Just saying …

from a free to share site
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016...-for-privatisation-of-the-nhs-and-much-worse/
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Which makes you wonder why sections of the remain campaign (namely the Greens) kept misleading voters saying that the "EU" has given us 'Human rights" when they should have clarified it's the ECHR and that remain or leave, we are all still protected by it.
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Because the E.U. took ECHR decisions and put them into laws or directives which then influences UK law.
 
Pam said:
That is not attainable under a points system, one criteria of which is (quite rightly) going to revolve around English skills. I favour a points system but I don't pretend it's a fair and democratic way to do things and I certainly don't think it's worth risking our economic security to get it.
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It doesn't have to be on a points system. I have worked and lived abroad in many countries where there wasn't a points system and it seemed to work well on the whole.
 
Just got back from voting out. Normally I'd just put my cross in the box with the usual handwriting pressure. This time I felt the need to press so hard I nearly tore the paper and broke the pencil. But I made sure it was embedded.
 
argyle said:
Because the E.U. took ECHR decisions and put them into laws or directives which then influences UK law.
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But the ECHR is adopted by 49 of the 50 European nations and only 28 of those are in the EU, so how does being in the EU matter, affect or influence ECHR?
 
Tim of the Oak said:
The debate on here has been far better natured than the national referendum debate (by and large). Let's keep it clean for the big day.

In or Out life goes on!
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Well its OK for you to say that - I guess most posters would agree if you if you changed that :

"The debate on here has been far better natured than the national referendum debate (until Pam got involved). Let's keep it clean for the big day."
 
blueonblue said:
But surely that can not be right, the migrants are a boon paying lots of tax while helping care for the old and sick aint they ?,
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It's what remain voters are voting for more of. Sickening that our country has come to this. These people are not registered to claim benefits. They work the black economy. It's all cash in hand which is then sent out of the country so never gets recycled into anything of benefit to the indigenous population. This is probably repeated up and down the country. Near me they park on waste land and tap into the electricity and water supplies and the authorities do fuck all apart from ask them nicely to move on...no chance.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3589474/The-London-car-park-camp-homeless-migrants-live.html
 
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The forces aligned against an independent and entrepreneurial Britain have included Wall Street, Washington, the US State Department, Brussels, NATO, Frankfurt, the Whiteminster Establishment, multinational business, the CIA, and all three sets of security services involved.

Over the last six weeks alone, those in favour of Brexit have been subjected first of all to the sort of cajoling usually reserved for kids who insist that playing with matches can be fun; then a fear campaign of such patronising idiocy it may yet do for several senior political careers. This was in turn followed by thinly veiled threats from Barack Obama, Jean-Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and (latterly) Wolfgang Schäuble….and topped off with a naked threat from Chancellor Osborne to immediately put up taxes if we didn’t behave ourselves.

Perpetual serfdom awaits your grandkids.
 
blueonblue said:
But surely that can not be right, the migrants are a boon paying lots of tax while helping care for the old and sick aint they ?,
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I have been to that car park they stand outside B and Q and wait for someone to employ them for housework. I had to set up security cameras there when cars mysteriously started having there windows put through
No correlation though
 
KenTheLandlord said:
Jean-Claude Juncker was voted in by the European Parliament who are in turn made up of the MEPs that you are eligible to vote for. He has a term for 5 years and then goes. He was voted in Nov 2014. Arguably more democratic than the positioning of Cameron (whose leadership of the tories was a private ballot) and who i have never voted for and yet is making decisions for me.
In fact people who want him out but live in areas that have high tory support, or even his own constituency, will never get the chance, so much for British democracy. You cannot dethrone Cameron.

van Rompuy is the ex leader of the European Council, now run by Donald Tusk. The council is separate from the EU. He had his own advisors or in British terms a cabinet. His position is also rotated hence Donald Tusk now doing the job. He was voted in by the European council who were the heads of state. Again, those heads of state are voted for by you.

So, as the democratic principle is of paramount importance to you, you can rest easy knowing that your vote is in there, somewhere, just like everyone elses, including those that have different views from you, but the principle stands.

To vote Remain is the democratic right of anyone, to call it indefensible is to argue against democracy.
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Democracy as a minimum is knowing who and what policies you are voting for and being given a choice to follow the policies that most closely match your views and the chance to vote them out if they don't live up to expectations.

You can argue about fairer systems and first past the post may need reform but it still delivered a coalition government that gave some balance to our govt. Then the people chose to punish the lib dems in the following election which is the electorates choice. In a democracy of course not everyone will get their choice, but opposing views serve to temper the extremes.

I see absolutely nothing in the EU that is democratic other than voting for an MEP who has no mandate or the ability to make manifesto commitments so in essence you have no idea what you are voting for, it's a sham, a pointless exercise,
 
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YPhrunts said:
No they are 'rotated' every five years. Without a manifesto, just an on going argument about what regulations to pass. And that passes as democracy. And the ECJ rules supreme and can push through its laws with no resistance. That's democracy too, evidently.
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As is having a "vote" in an area in which you happen to live is meaningless.

There is no need for a manifesto as you put it because the format of the Parliament has been formed from the voters all over Europe, each having a vote and each having a say.
They then go through the process of deciding if something will be beneficial to all.
Sometimes it is like the 2700 times the UK has been happy with the final proposal and sometimes not, like the 40 times we have not agrees with the final proposal.

The ECJ is there to make judgements and apply its findings on law equally to all countries. It is a court of law there is no democracy in the UK courts, why would there be one there?
Why waste time having everyone sit down in their own country and come up with slightly different interpretations?
The democracy came when we signed in and agreed to the club rules.
National courts can still refer questions of EU law to the ECJ.
 
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