EU referendum

[blueonblue]

Jean-Claude Juncker was voted in by the European Parliament who are in turn made up of the MEPs that you are eligible to vote for

Could you enlighten us who stood against him ?, because I seem to remember he was the only one proposed for a vote.

 

[argyle]

But the ECHR is adopted by 49 of the 50 European nations and only 28 of those are in the EU, so how does being in the EU matter, affect or influence ECHR?

The E.U and it's member states aren't bound by any ruling by the ECHR, it is by the ECJ.

It's up to member states which parts of the ECHR they set into directives or law which is then upheld by ECJ.

I'm sure there are better people on here than me to explain it.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Explain how

Explain the corruption that we can discuss it.

 

[Metal Biker]

Could you enlighten us who stood against him ?, because I seem to remember he was the only one proposed for a vote.

I also remember that the representative leader our the UK's elected party was against Juncker becoming President of the EU Commission and it still happened.

 

[argyle]

But surely that can not be right, the migrants are a boon paying lots of tax while helping care for the old and sick aint they ?,

No one says there aren't problems with immigration and migration.

What people dislike is people using a minority of migrants who are homeless to make it seem that we have a big immigration problem who are here to scrounge.

 

[Metal Biker]

Explain the corruption that we can discuss it.

Juncker. How do we remove Juncker.

Also, stop dodging the question. I didn't ask what in your opinion is classed as corruption, I asked how do we, the citizens of the EU, remove an appointed official of the Commission?

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Worth a watch for the undecideds

 

[YPhrunts]

I also remember that the representative leader our the UK's elected party was against Juncker becoming President of the EU Commission and it still happened.

And that has been a festering wound ever since. It's the reason Junker is so obnoxious towards us. He doesn't like Cameron so therefore he doesn't like us.

 

[mcfc1632]

Haha! Lack of knowledge on this subject matter.

Have you ever heard of MEPs or the Council of Ministers who have to approve legislation?

But.......................

Only one group can initiate - and then things get put to the vote with much 'discussion/collusion/agreement' occurring before - this is why big business loves the EU they can get things 'lobbied' through

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

For the record, here are just a few of the views on the NHS – and other things – of leading members of the Brexit campaigns:

So you can 100% guarantee me that if we stay in the EU that the NHS will be absolutely protected from privatisation if TTIP is signed can you young Kenneth?

The difference between elected representatives in the UK saying it and the EU saying it is that general elections can be decided on the issue of the health service. It's quite important to British voters. If a Tory government did privatise a key part of the NHS, they could be voted out at the next election.

If the EU opens up public services to private investment then they can't be and even a change of government would not be able to reverse any changes.




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[halfcenturyup]

That chart is the voting blocs that the various parties organise themselves into.

Why would you vote for a candidate for an Italian party with national interests? You vote for the British parties 'cos that's who you vote for. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

My take on the democracy thing for what it's worth. It only works if you share a common ideology with the rest of your co-electorate. If there is no ideology across the electorate, as on the importance of the NHS to Britain or social ideals more widely, for example, there is no way that your views will be heard and your ideals represented if you are substantially in the minority. It's the problem the Scots have with Westminster and the answer has been to devolve more powers. IMHO, the European answer WILL be to centralise more power. So you can elect all the MEPs you want, but the result will be more disenfranchisement not less. In short, if you are expecting any policies from Europe to support the NHS, for example, you can forget it.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Democracy as a minimum is knowing who and what policies you are voting for and being given a choice to follow the policies that most closely match your views and the chance to vote them out if they don't live up to expectations.

You can argue about fairer systems and first past the post may need reform but it still delivered a coalition get government that gave some balance to our govt. Then the people chose to punish the lib dems in the following election which is his choice. In a democracy of course not everyone will get their choice, but opposing views serve to temper the extremes.

I see absolutely nothing in the EU that is democratic other than voting for an MEP who has no mandate or the ability to make manifesto commitments so in essence you have no idea what you are voting for, it's a sham, a pointless exercise,

I do vote in Euro elections and for a party that is closest what i think, then again at General Elections. If not happy vote your MEP out them, same as your MP.
The EU needs reform, no one doubts that but after the voting from all over Europe, the EP is a reflection on everyone's vote. Do we have a balance of the UK? When people have to tactical vote and not vote for the party they want? The criteria applies in the EP to temper extremes.
As i said in the other post the mandate of course will be applied differently, the whole of the countries decide on what they deem fit to move the bloc forward.
I live in a country in which i have no confidence in the sitting government and i will vote against them again, meanwhile the sham and the pointless exercise of the UK voting will carry on.

 

[Metal Biker]

The E.U and it's member states aren't bound by any ruling by the ECHR, it is by the ECJ.

It's up to member states which parts of the ECHR they set into directives or law which is then upheld by ECJ.

I'm sure there are better people on here than me to explain it.

The ECJ does not enforce the ECHR in non-EU member states yet those non-EU european nations which adopt ECHR are allowed to do so.

The EU means nothing in regards to enforcing ECHR.

 

[blueincy]

Make sure you take a black pen with you just been told they're using pencils FFS.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

Possibly because she's worried that in 10 years time, once TTIP is agreed, she'll be working for Serco Health Services or some US based health care group on a zero hours contract. And if she doesn't like it, they'll replace her with some foreigner who's less well-trained and will work longer for 25% less.

Meanwhile her bosses, who all used to be her bosses in the old NHS and were telling her to vote Remain, are on nice fat contracts with bonuses and share options.

At a guess.

Tbh i doubt my Mrs would know what TTiP was if it fell on her head. She's only recently qualified as a nurse, and the reasons for voting for leave are more based on what she saw/experienced while she was doing her training/degree & also how the UK (& EU) should function in her view.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Juncker. How do we remove Juncker.

Also, stop dodging the question. I didn't ask what in your opinion is classed as corruption, I asked how do we, the citizens of the EU, remove an appointed official of the Commission?

How do we remove Cameron?
If you do not like Juncker that is no grounds to remove him.

No, you asked "Can we, the citizens of the 'European Union' remove a corrupt Commissioner?"
I am asking what is the corruption, then we can discuss it. Far from avoiding i am trying to see what you are not happy with

 

[Blue Mooner]

I do vote in Euro elections and for a party that is closest what i think, then again at General Elections. If not happy vote your MEP out them, same as your MP.
The EU needs reform, no one doubts that but after the voting from all over Europe, the EP is a reflection on everyone's vote. Do we have a balance of the UK? When people have to tactical vote and not vote for the party they want? The criteria applies in the EP to temper extremes.
As i said in the other post the mandate of course will be applied differently, the whole of the countries decide on what they deem fit to move the bloc forward.
I live in a country in which i have no confidence in the sitting government and i will vote against them again, meanwhile the sham and the pointless exercise of the UK voting will carry on.

But everyone gets above and everyone agrees with you, you will get the govt you want. You're moaning about our democracy because you're not getting the outcome you want.

I think remain will get the vote today against my wishes but that's democracy and I will have to live with it.

There is nothing democratic in the EU voting system as you're not voting on anything other than an individual.

 

[Metal Biker]

How do we remove Cameron?
If you do not like Juncker that is no grounds to remove him.

No, you asked "Can we, the citizens of the 'European Union' remove a corrupt Commissioner?"
I am asking what is the corruption, then we can discuss it. Far from avoiding i am trying to see what you are not happy with

More dodging. People don't like Cameron for his policies. People don't like Juncker for his policies in Europe.

How do we, the citizens of the European Union, remove a Commissioner from their appointed position, corrupt or not? If we disagree with the motives and political views of an appointed Commissioner, how can we remove them from their appointed position?

 

[mcfc1632]

I joined in ages ago FFS - never any need for personal abuse it's easy enough just to tell people they are wrong

Erm?? is that faux rage? or are you really making the mistake of thinking that he was aiming that at you.

Your posts have been 'exhaustive' but that is not what is being referred to here I would suggest

 

[KenTheLandlord]

So you can 100% guarantee me that if we stay in the EU that the NHS will be absolutely protected from privatisation if TTIP is signed can you young Kenneth?

The difference between elected representatives in the UK saying it and the EU saying it is that general elections can be decided on the issue of the health service. It's quite important to British voters. If a Tory government did privatise a key part of the NHS, they could be voted out at the next election.

If the EU opens up public services to private investment then they can't be and even a change of government would not be able to reverse any changes.

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i can happily say it with the same certainty that you can say it will be protected if we leave, which was really the point.
Virtually all EU countries have some form of free healthcare, like us some have the combination of free or private care.

When the tories are kicked out are all the sold services going to be taken back then?
You can change the government but once it is sold off, it is gone, as with other industries.
Vote out and the process of selling can start as soon as the tories have had their bloodbath.