Evidence for religion

[MellowJoe]

Aye - read that. I really enjoyed that show (and the second series).
There's a wealth of interesting comments against the antinatilism/Benatar philosophy tbf. There's so many philosophies out there...I'm finding I live my life better thinking in terms I'm a bunch of atoms swimming in as vast ocean of atoms and just get them manipulated and massaged through exercise and experience. Overthought too many things over my life and it got me nowhere.
The Seinfeld episode 'The Opposite' is an interesting take on changing your life. Just rediscovered those shows...they bring me 20 mins of pure joy at the end of the day.

Personally I've not heard a compelling argument against Antinatalism, what's the strongest you've come across?

 

[Two Gun Bob]

We gather together with people of the same belief to worship, and our chants are the equivalent of hymns. However we have proof the subjects of our worship actually exist, something that cannot be said for many major religions.

I understand the semantics of your analogy so why then at church do we still chant were not really here. We see before our eyes God like activity on the field of play and yet like doubting Thomas's deny our own existence. Happy are those called to the supper. Revelation 19.9

 

[somapop]

Personally I've not heard a compelling argument against Antinatalism, what's the strongest you've come across?

Caster Semenya.

Just general comments really on websites....it's relatively new to me tbf and I understand the reasoning behind it. I might even read the book, but fearful it will bring in the black dog. I know nothing about the writer but perhaps his outlook on life is rather miserable anyway. Bit like the odd neighbour on the street who hates all the kids. Optimism keeps me upright so that's the path I'll wander down.

 

[arfurclue]

Arthur, what you wrote then was perfectly understandable. And when it’s like that I have no issues taking it in. It’s the deeper more cryptic and indecipherable stuff that I find annoying. It’s almost like you’re trying to wind people up by writing 500 words that amount to nothing. Perhaps I’m missing the meaning and if so it’s on me, not you.

Do whatever makes you happy. I don’t expect anyone to have to justify why they think God exists. I’ve said many times why I think he doesn’t. And before I go, I don’t think you’re an asshole.

Thank you. I really appreciate this answer. Apologies for not replying sooner - just wanted to take a step back. For me, religion is much more like a personal way to come to
be free of suffering, than it is about telling others what they should/shouldn't do, what they should/shouldn't believe. In this, I have slowly come to realise that, when stuck in suffering, there can be a temptation to treat myself and/or others like shit. That doesn't seem so great or helpful for anyone. I have come to understand that there is misunderstanding between myself and others here. What I don't understand is the how's and why's of this. Many times have I written here and thought 'oh, that will be understandable' - then it turns out is anything but. I don't mean to write here to say 'i am right, you are wrong' more can we each be free to follow out own way. I don't mean to write here to wind people up, but it is apparent that some folk come to feel wound up by what I write. No blame attached either way - it just is as it is - yet it doesn't feel like this is so helpful for anyone. So,for now, I might just be quiet here. Thanks once again

 

[andyhinch]

Thank you. I really appreciate this answer. Apologies for not replying sooner - just wanted to take a step back. For me, religion is much more like a personal way to come to
be free of suffering, than it is about telling others what they should/shouldn't do, what they should/shouldn't believe. In this, I have slowly come to realise that, when stuck in suffering, there can be a temptation to treat myself and/or others like shit. That doesn't seem so great or helpful for anyone. I have come to understand that there is misunderstanding between myself and others here. What I don't understand is the how's and why's of this. Many times have I written here and thought 'oh, that will be understandable' - then it turns out is anything but. I don't mean to write here to say 'i am right, you are wrong' more can we each be free to follow out own way. I don't mean to write here to wind people up, but it is apparent that some folk come to feel wound up by what I write. No blame attached either way - it just is as it is - yet it doesn't feel like this is so helpful for anyone. So,for now, I might just be quiet here. Thanks once again

Trust me I’ve been though some shit in my life, I’ll a ways help anyone that’s down on their luck, good or bad is in the person, if it was down to religion why do priest’s rape kids ?

 

[MellowJoe]

Caster Semenya.

Just general comments really on websites....it's relatively new to me tbf and I understand the reasoning behind it. I might even read the book, but fearful it will bring in the black dog. I know nothing about the writer but perhaps his outlook on life is rather miserable anyway. Bit like the odd neighbour on the street who hates all the kids. Optimism keeps me upright so that's the path I'll wander down.

Ah well it's not the most life affirming of philosophies, but it needn't make one miserable. Having read Benetar and heard his Sam Harris/Jordan Peterson debates, he'd say life isn't worth bringing into existence, but those currently living have an interest in continuing to exist

 

[somapop]

Ah well it's not the most life affirming of philosophies, but it needn't make one miserable. Having read Benetar and heard his Sam Harris/Jordan Peterson debates, he'd say life isn't worth bringing into existence, but those currently living have an interest in continuing to exist

Maybe I'll read it when I'm in a good frame of mind (and when I've trawled through the ten books in the queue!).
Not heard of Sam Harris nor Jordan Peterson tbh, but I'll dig around those too.
Cheers.

 

[arfurclue]

Trust me I’ve been though some shit in my life, I’ll a ways help anyone that’s down on their luck, good or bad is in the person, if it was down to religion why do priest’s rape k? ids ?

And/or there are folk that can help people through this. Does it matter whom? Please, find your own way through this...and I know how hard this can be. And I don't go to church at all. Just have a few friends, who are more interested in opening to freedom of suffering, than buying into some sort of religious dogma. For me, I find this helpful, for you it may not be. But each to their own, right? Having said that..if you automatically associate the 'r' word with rape, then having a conversation with you might not be such a good idea?

 

[arfurclue]

Trust me I’ve been though some shit in my life, I’ll a ways help anyone that’s down on their luck, good or bad is in the person, if it was down to religion why do priest’s rape kids ?

Have been called a prick by one side of an argument, an asshole by the other. I just want to know a peace beyond this. You get to decide 'within' whom of these three you want to write to. Within this I have the right to reply?

 

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

Personally I've not heard a compelling argument against Antinatalism, what's the strongest you've come across?

Benatar’s antinatalist view can be criticised on the basis of research carried out by Robert Biswas-Diener. Biswas-Diener has travelled the world interviewing people about their lives and how satisfied they are with them. Wherever he goes, he has found that most people (with the exception of the homeless) are more satisfied than dissatisfied with their lives. He even found this was the case with prostitutes in Calcutta, forced by poverty to sell their bodies and sacrifice their futures to disease. Overall, Biswas-Diener‘s research suggests that the lives of those we might pity are much better from the inside than they may look to an antinatalist like Benatar.

There's also evidence that intensive meditation can have a transformative effect, making us more selfless and content with our lives. Buddhists would claim that this is because this practice orients us more towards reality as it truly is. Others might argue that this effect is akin to a form of neuroplasticity that causes us to don perceptual rose-tinted spectacles.

Research on the brain of Matthieu Ricard is relevant in this respect:

https://www.entertales.com/matthieu-ricard-worlds-happiest-person/

The sceptical Bristol-based academic Kathy Sykes's documentary on meditation also demonstrates the value of meditation.