FA Youth Cup 4th Round vs Liverpool (19:00 KO)

I've followed the youth teams a lot more this last couple of years, but only saw glimpses in the years before that, so my question to those more knowledgeable would be this; clearly we had some guys we expected to do well, such as Barker, Lopes, Suarez, Rekik etc. that never made it here (or didn't get the chance here) - how good did those guys look in comparison to the current flock of talent? Say, Barker compared with Sancho for example. Are this new lot more exciting looking, or were similarly high expectations held for that past group?

Have been hugely impressed with a bunch of the guys at the 18s/EDS level, not just Sancho/Diaz, but I try not to be too excited by it all at this age as I'm sure some just won't reach the level we would hope.
 
I've followed the youth teams a lot more this last couple of years, but only saw glimpses in the years before that, so my question to those more knowledgeable would be this; clearly we had some guys we expected to do well, such as Barker, Lopes, Suarez, Rekik etc. that never made it here (or didn't get the chance here) - how good did those guys look in comparison to the current flock of talent? Say, Barker compared with Sancho for example. Are this new lot more exciting looking, or were similarly high expectations held for that past group?

Have been hugely impressed with a bunch of the guys at the 18s/EDS level, not just Sancho/Diaz, but I try not to be too excited by it all at this age as I'm sure some just won't reach the level we would hope.



always thought barker was a one trick lazy pony
 
I've said before that with the Prem having 7 spots on the bench 2 places should be made mandatory for under age players who are club trained.
 
TBH I look at the likes of Sancho and Diaz now, as young as they are and think why the hell did we need to buy Sane or even Sterling. I know they were too young last year, but substitute Barker or Roberts or whoever you want.
I would hope when Nolito and Navas are gone that these two will be in there competing for places with the other pair.
Sane & Sterling are 5 & 6 years older than Sancho & Diaz with all that that implies in terms of experience. Of the other two, Barker sometimes looked like a world beater at youth level but his head could drop when something didn't come off and he'd just trudge back whereas Sancho or Diaz (let alone Sterling, Sane is still an unknown yet) wouldn't give up until they'd got the all back. That's why Barker is on loan and not in the 1st team squad, he's still young and there's time for it to click with him yet but I've got my doubts sadly. Roberts looks more promising but still has a lot to prove.
 
Sane & Sterling are 5 & 6 years older than Sancho & Diaz with all that that implies in terms of experience. Of the other two, Barker sometimes looked like a world beater at youth level but his head could drop when something didn't come off and he'd just trudge back whereas Sancho or Diaz (let alone Sterling, Sane is still an unknown yet) wouldn't give up until they'd got the all back. That's why Barker is on loan and not in the 1st team squad, he's still young and there's time for it to click with him yet but I've got my doubts sadly. Roberts looks more promising but still has a lot to prove.
I agree with yourself and r.sole about Barker and I appreciate how young Sancho and Diaz were at the time Sterling was bought.

I suppose ostensibly what I am hoping for is a change from here on in, in our academy policy. Particularly starting with the likes of the obvious talents of Diaz and Sancho. I happen to think Sancho has the better chance, but it is a lottery.
I would be very disappointed to see this pair loaned out.

I have been firmly of the belief for a few years now, that our first team are not of the standard to play the kind of football that we aspire to. The kind of football that the underage teams are being bred for. I think this has hampered the placement of youngsters into the team. Pellegrini wouldn't risk it even after we knew he was going.

Why?

We seem to have had a plan for the last three years to get things organised for the coming of Pep.

I think a squad should have been assembled that was ready to play this kind of football, with perhaps the addition of a few academy players into the squad. Instead we have an ageing backbone of the team and the ones we've bought in aren't good enough.

I think this leaves Pep in the same situation where his senior team can't play the football he wants to play and I'm worried that our ready made youth aren't going to get the chance until we have a first eleven that can.

I don't know if this makes sense or if I'm explaining what's in my head correctly.

Essentially we've bought what we perceived to be ready made youth, those that have already played in other top teams and until we have a first team that is comfortable with the football Pep wants to play, I am worried that our academy players are still not going to be trusted.

This despite the fact that they were groomed for it.
I hope I am talking out my arse.
I really do believe still that three or four of the current batch( include Garcia in that) have to get a chance next season.

What we buy in the summer will have a big bearing on this. I kind of believe that the better the quality of our purchases, the better the chance of getting the academy conveyor belt going.
 
I agree with yourself and r.sole about Barker and I appreciate how young Sancho and Diaz were at the time Sterling was bought.

I suppose ostensibly what I am hoping for is a change from here on in, in our academy policy. Particularly starting with the likes of the obvious talents of Diaz and Sancho. I happen to think Sancho has the better chance, but it is a lottery.
I would be very disappointed to see this pair loaned out.

I have been firmly of the belief for a few years now, that our first team are not of the standard to play the kind of football that we aspire to. The kind of football that the underage teams are being bred for. I think this has hampered the placement of youngsters into the team. Pellegrini wouldn't risk it even after we knew he was going.

Why?

We seem to have had a plan for the last three years to get things organised for the coming of Pep.

I think a squad should have been assembled that was ready to play this kind of football, with perhaps the addition of a few academy players into the squad. Instead we have an ageing backbone of the team and the ones we've bought in aren't good enough.

I think this leaves Pep in the same situation where his senior team can't play the football he wants to play and I'm worried that our ready made youth aren't going to get the chance until we have a first eleven that can.

I don't know if this makes sense or if I'm explaining what's in my head correctly.

Essentially we've bought what we perceived to be ready made youth, those that have already played in other top teams and until we have a first team that is comfortable with the football Pep wants to play, I am worried that our academy players are still not going to be trusted.

This despite the fact that they were groomed for it.
I hope I am talking out my arse.
I really do believe still that three or four of the current batch( include Garcia in that) have to get a chance next season.

What we buy in the summer will have a big bearing on this. I kind of believe that the better the quality of our purchases, the better the chance of getting the academy conveyor belt going.
Nope, I know exactly what you mean. I'm hopeful (especially with this rumoured contract extension) that Pep has a long term plan that we bring in the top young talent (Sterling, Sane, Jesus etc) and compliment them with the even younger Academy lads. It's always been the long term goal of the Sheikh that we become self sustaining and I see this as just another step on the path. The younger age groups seem to be equal or have the potential to be better than the present U18's, the future really is bright.
 
No reason to get shirty, don't worry! It's a very hard question to answer, but when you consider that Glenn Whelan is currently playing in the Premier League and basically anyone we've had in our academy sides for the past few years is probably better than he ever was as a kid, then you'd guess many could if given a chance. It's all guess work cos it depends on how they reacted to the situation. Some seemingly lesser players blossom surrounded by great players, some fall, despite being more talented. Someone like Evans could have surprised us. He's now playing near the top end of the Championship and always looked very good in preseason with the first team, surrounded by top class players. What's to say that he couldn't have fitted in and been a good squad player for us? People like Lopes too could have been a terrifying impact sub, and he actually showed that v West Ham, looking excellent...then explicably never got another shot again. Someone like Kean Bryan is a very tidy footballer with bags of heart, great physicality and a proper warrior. I've absolutely no doubt that if he'd have been introduced as a late sub and told to destroy anything in front of our defence, instead that went to Demichelis for some baffling reason, he'd have 100% not let us down and probably won a few home fans over too with his determination.

Barker maybe should have got a chance as a sub when he was absolutely flying and full of confidence (and he really, really was a couple of years back) and Ambrose was also causing all manner of problems at 17/18. Denayer 100% should have become a squad regular last year seeing as he was ours, he'd just been one of the best, if not the best, player over in Scotland (you can mock it, but as a kid on loan in a physical league, to win the young player of they ear in your first ever pro season is impressive) and he was impressing for Belgium and away at Inter in a 10 man team, but (yet again) MP picked Demichelis over him which boggles the mind. Basically, you never really fully *know* until they get a chance. I don't expect any kids to be thrown in as regulars, even now. I don't think Maffeo or Garcia should be playing every game, though I think they're both excellent footballers. I just expect us to know when the right moment is for them to be challenged further.

A young game changer like Barker was at 17/18, genuinely destroying basically everyone he faced at youth level week in week out should have totally been rewarded with a 20 minute cameo when he was flying. That's what you do. You give them that taste. The worst case scenario is that he would've been quiet, done nowt and no damage would have been done. The best case scenario is that, full of confidence, he could have skinned his FB, set up a last minute goal and saw his self-belief and confidence rocket. A star is born. Think Rashford, a player that had done significantly less than Barker at youth level and couldn't get anywhere near the England youth setup cos of Barker. This stuff CAN happen, but it can only happen when they get a chance. Instead Barker never got his shot, was faffing about in the EDS a year later, his form and confidence started to drop as he stagnated and he was shipped out on a fucking terrible loan to Rotherham which dented him further. Not a single person in the world *knows* if a talented kid will make it or not. If they say they do, they don't. I don't, Pep doesn't, MP doesn't. Txiki doesn't. Some opinions are more informed than others, definitely, but no one ever fully knows until it happens out on the pitch.

All I ask as a fan is that they get a chance when they deserve it. I trust and hope Pep knows this. I think he does. The fact that Foden was involved the other week as a 16 year old is brilliant. Genuinely. It's Pep doing EXACTLY what I explained up there ^ Rewarding an exceptional young lad on a very upwards trajectory with that taste to keep him motivated. It's a shame he didn't get on, but it's still huge for the lad. He's 16. Imagine the boost that gave him. Brahim got it too v Swansea earlier this season. You reward exceptional talent with that taste to encourage them. If you don't give it them, their heads drop. That doesn't then mean they're then not good enough or strong enough mentally. It means they're human, they're kids and they react to things emotionally like the rest of us. I'm totally aware it's not always possible to give kids a chance, but it 100% has been possible for that to happen over the last couple of years. We've had an 18 year old Ambrose on the bench, in the middle of a great run of form, at home 3-0 up to WBA, and MP then brings on Scott fucking Sinclair instead. Literally what is the point? Bring a reject on who everyone knew would leave in a couple of months who hadn't played a game in ages cos he wasn't good enough, or bring the kid on who could be the potential future of your club? There is literally no excuse for that. A single decision like that can change the whole feeling around the academy.

I don't expect ten academy players in the first team. I know its not possible, but what I do expect, and hope for, is that we offer actual incentives for these young lads and show them that their exceptional form at youth level will be rewarded potentially. There has been absolutely loads of good young players at City over the past 2/3 years. Not all would have gone to be stars, but a few could have definitely surprised us and saved us a fortune in the transfer market. I just wish we'd had the guts to actually find out. We get it so wrong in this country. We'd much rather buy someone else's young lad who's played 30 games instead of develop our own. The irony is that our young lads had probably out-played that young lad at youth level only a few months earlier too...


It’s worth remembering that Glenn Whelan is 5 years older than Daniel Sturridge, Micah Richards, and the unfortunate Michael Johnson (who I still believe was the most talented youngster that we’ve produced in 20 years)

In an ideal world, these three players would now be approaching the peak of their career, whilst forming the heartbeat of the current team.

Sadly, it wasn’t to be, as fitness issues dictated otherwise. However, let’s not be too self critical as some of our successes are often overlooked.

As for the current crop, it's amazing how many ex-players slate the direction and standard of the EDS, basically because tackling is almost non existent in Academy Football. Consequently, many talented prospects lose confidence and drift towards mediocrity, once they become exposed to the "edgy",gritty reality of proper football.
Perhaps this explains why so many players (not just at City) disappear rapidly, from the fringes of the Premier League, and then out of football altogether.
 
Diaz ,Sancho and Foden and I'd throw in Nmecha, in there as well. If at least one or more of these 4 aren't in the first team or made there debuts within the next 18 months i'll be amazed. Watched City Youth on and off since Redmond and Moulden days, these 4 are cut above anything we've had in the past.
 
Diaz ,Sancho and Foden and I'd throw in Nmecha, in there as well. If at least one or more of these 4 aren't in the first team or made there debuts within the next 18 months i'll be amazed. Watched City Youth on and off since Redmond and Moulden days, these 4 are cut above anything we've had in the past.

i agree on the first part, but imo micheal johnson and sturridge are the best we have produced. both of them should been in our first team now. unfortunately it didn't turn out like that
 

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