Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

[foetus]

He blatantly was. A despicably arrogant bad loser with abysmal man management skills. Sheikh Mansour's money won us those pots. Numerous managers could've achieved it and some with more diplomacy would still be in charge now.

What's the point of taking us in to the Champions League when we can't get past the group stages?

Nonsense.

Aren't you the notorious Hughes fanboy?

He couldn't do it could he? In spite of all the money he threw at it.

The denigration of Mancini's character and his achievements at City following his sacking, by some blues, really turns my stomach.

Seems to be fashionable now too, which is even worse.

Mancini was a hard task master, but his impact at City was immediate. He knocked heads together, when he was appointed he transformed us from a shambolic team of individuals who couldn't defend a two goal lead into a solid and cohesive unit almost overnight.

He was an autocrat, but at that period of our development it was effective. He accepted nothing but ultimate commitment to the cause, anyone who undermined him or didn't pull his weight was sent packing. We had countless players on the books who weren't fit for purpose, were here for all the wrong reasons (money) and didn't have the right attitude to be a success at City. Mancini either whipped them into shape or included them in a massive cull of deadwood.

Too many of the playing staff didn't have the attitude of winners, too many accepted defeat and didn't have the required mental fortitude to cut it at the level we aspired to.

Mancini recognised those players and disposed of them like household waste. A good thing as far as I'm concerned, we didn't have the time for sentiment back then.

The players whom Mancini recognised to be made right stuff were drilled and drilled until they knew and fully understood their role in his set-up, no stone was left unturned.

Numerous players were transformed from wildly inconsistent and under performing, to key stalwarts of the side that represents us in the Champions League today.

Kompany was on the bench when Mancini arrived. Usually deployed in defensive midfield, he was being kept out of central defence by the then manager's two big money signings, Lescott and Kolo Toure. Both players couldn't buy a clean sheet and then defence was a shambles. Mancini immediately introduced Kompany into the side, and transformed him into a player who is now considered one of the greatest players in his position, in the whole of Europe.

Richards was erratic and didn't understand the core responsibilities of his position. Mancini transformed him into a reliable fullback while maintaining his attacking threat.

Zabaleta was a hardworking but apparently average player who rarely played, and when he did he was rash in the tackle and average both defensively and going forward. Today Zabaleta is regarded as the league's best right back and was the club's player of the year last season.

Barry was wholly unreliable, uncomfortable in possession, slow in thought and had many people openly doubting his worth to the side. Became the first name on the team sheet under Mancini, established himself as our most reliable performer, shielding the defence and keeping the ball moving quickly in midfield. Proved himself instrumental in our title winning season.

Joe Hart was on loan at Birmingham, and was questioning his future at City. Mancini brought him back from loan, introduced him back into the side dropping Given, to the tune of a man of the match performance at WHL. Quickly established himself as among the best in the league and became England's number one. Has since won 3 golden gloves.

Improved both Lescott and Kolo Toure, the former became a key player in our title winning season.

I'm sure there are more, but you catch the drift.

We went through an enormous transition under Mancini. When he took over we were a mid-table side with ambitions of a top four place. When he left 3 and a half years later we were an established member of the 'elite' and had an FA Cup and league title to our name.

He never did the arm round the shoulder, but his 'win at all costs' mentality and attention to detail earned us a Premier League title. It also saw us play some of the best football the division has seen since Arsene Wenger's invincibles.

It saw us take Chelsea's fortress record in a 2-4 win at Stamford Bridge. It saw us win the FA Cup. It saw us humiliate United 1-6 at Old Trafford. It saw us win the Premier League.

I think there is an argument that Mancini began to grate for many at the club, his autocratic ways and harsh manner souring the mood as results suffered.

Maybe we needed the fresh start, a fresh pair of hands? A more diplomatic manager who is liked by his players, and able to soothe the supposed unrest that developed.

But like Mancini and Hughes before him, he will be measured by results. I just fear that many of our players needed an autocrat, there shall be no such excuses from them in May should we fail to improve on last season.

But I digress. The disparaging terms many on here talk of Mancini is absurd, and I think you should reflect more closely on your critique of him as a manager.

Post of the season

Agreed.

 

[MadchesterCity]

Soriano & Begiristain got shot of Mancini because they didn't get on with him. Their choice Pellegrini now has to do better than Mancini - i.e. 1 top rank trophy every season. That is what the owner demands and £92m on transfers says that Pellegrini has been given the ammunition. He now has to hit the ground running or he will be gone. Sooner rather than later.

I really hope they do it because there will be no transition period. Success is demanded and if it is not achieved quickly, Pellegrini will be gone in short order and probably Begiristain not far behind him. Maybe Soriano too if the appointment after Pellegrini doesn't do so well. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Spot on. If the season is an absolute disaster they will all be out. Good job for them that we have a piss easy CL group.

First of all we don't have a 'piss easy' CL group, it gives us a favourable chance of qualifying but CSKA are no mugs and it would be foolish to write them off.

And to BlueAnorak how on earth have you managed to come up to that conclusion based on what has happened so far?

My Chech mate tells me that Plzen are great side also, he said they would thump Celtic, this is the comparison he gave me<br /><br />-- Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:30 am --<br /><br />

Nonsense.

Aren't you the notorious Hughes fanboy?

He couldn't do it could he? In spite of all the money he threw at it.

The denigration of Mancini's character and his achievements at City following his sacking, by some blues, really turns my stomach.

Seems to be fashionable now too, which is even worse.

Mancini was a hard task master, but his impact at City was immediate. He knocked heads together, when he was appointed he transformed us from a shambolic team of individuals who couldn't defend a two goal lead into a solid and cohesive unit almost overnight.

He was an autocrat, but at that period of our development it was effective. He accepted nothing but ultimate commitment to the cause, anyone who undermined him or didn't pull his weight was sent packing. We had countless players on the books who weren't fit for purpose, were here for all the wrong reasons (money) and didn't have the right attitude to be a success at City. Mancini either whipped them into shape or included them in a massive cull of deadwood.

Too many of the playing staff didn't have the attitude of winners, too many accepted defeat and didn't have the required mental fortitude to cut it at the level we aspired to.

Mancini recognised those players and disposed of them like household waste. A good thing as far as I'm concerned, we didn't have the time for sentiment back then.

The players whom Mancini recognised to be made right stuff were drilled and drilled until they knew and fully understood their role in his set-up, no stone was left unturned.

Numerous players were transformed from wildly inconsistent and under performing, to key stalwarts of the side that represents us in the Champions League today.

Kompany was on the bench when Mancini arrived. Usually deployed in defensive midfield, he was being kept out of central defence by the then manager's two big money signings, Lescott and Kolo Toure. Both players couldn't buy a clean sheet and then defence was a shambles. Mancini immediately introduced Kompany into the side, and transformed him into a player who is now considered one of the greatest players in his position, in the whole of Europe.

Richards was erratic and didn't understand the core responsibilities of his position. Mancini transformed him into a reliable fullback while maintaining his attacking threat.

Zabaleta was a hardworking but apparently average player who rarely played, and when he did he was rash in the tackle and average both defensively and going forward. Today Zabaleta is regarded as the league's best right back and was the club's player of the year last season.

Barry was wholly unreliable, uncomfortable in possession, slow in thought and had many people openly doubting his worth to the side. Became the first name on the team sheet under Mancini, established himself as our most reliable performer, shielding the defence and keeping the ball moving quickly in midfield. Proved himself instrumental in our title winning season.

Joe Hart was on loan at Birmingham, and was questioning his future at City. Mancini brought him back from loan, introduced him back into the side dropping Given, to the tune of a man of the match performance at WHL. Quickly established himself as among the best in the league and became England's number one. Has since won 3 golden gloves.

Improved both Lescott and Kolo Toure, the former became a key player in our title winning season.

I'm sure there are more, but you catch the drift.

We went through an enormous transition under Mancini. When he took over we were a mid-table side with ambitions of a top four place. When he left 3 and a half years later we were an established member of the 'elite' and had an FA Cup and league title to our name.

He never did the arm round the shoulder, but his 'win at all costs' mentality and attention to detail earned us a Premier League title. It also saw us play some of the best football the division has seen since Arsene Wenger's invincibles.

It saw us take Chelsea's fortress record in a 2-4 win at Stamford Bridge. It saw us win the FA Cup. It saw us humiliate United 1-6 at Old Trafford. It saw us win the Premier League.

I think there is an argument that Mancini began to grate for many at the club, his autocratic ways and harsh manner souring the mood as results suffered.

Maybe we needed the fresh start, a fresh pair of hands? A more diplomatic manager who is liked by his players, and able to soothe the supposed unrest that developed.

But like Mancini and Hughes before him, he will be measured by results. I just fear that many of our players needed an autocrat, there shall be no such excuses from them in May should we fail to improve on last season.

But I digress. The disparaging terms many on here talk of Mancini is absurd, and I think you should reflect more closely on your critique of him as a manager.

Post of the season

Agreed.

Loved that 1-6 pic and the Cheshire Cat grin from Mancini, Mario and Mancini and the rest of the City team gave me arguably the greatest day of my life watching us humiliate the scum in their Back garden

 

[Anonymous]

Can't for the life of me think how people could be so misinformed about their own club that they think that if this season doesn't go according to plan that Txiki and Ferran will be "out". It's an absolute nonsense. Soriano is actually running not just City, but the NY club too. Txiki has been given the task of putting a coaching structure in place not just for the first team, but our hundred million pound brand new Etihad Campus. These guys are here for the medium to long term, and there's in my opinion fuck all that can happen to change that.

It's also a bit dim to be making sneering comments about one or two youth team players being let go as if this somehow flies in the face of the long term vision of the club. The Campus isn't even open yet, and only once it's open and it's been in use for some years will it really begin to bare fruit. It's apparent that our previous two managers cared not one bit about the youth/reserve teams, which is why they ended up in such a shambolic state. Txiki in particular has been brought in to rectify this, but it's about scouting and player development, and anyone who thinks it's going to happen today or tomorrow is deluded. It'll take time, but at least with these guys we're moving in the right direction rather than under previous regimes where the people who should've been giving a fuck about the academy set up, simply didn't.<br /><br />-- Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:05 am --<br /><br />

Both men deserve huge amounts of praise. The transfer business we've conducted is the best of the top 6 clubs with possibly the exception of Spurs.

mmmm, not only is the jury still out it hasn't even been picked yet.

better than Ed across the road I suppose.

Bollocks. You can take your jury and deliberate wherever you want Bill ... our summer transfer business has been top draw. The only reason the whole forum isn't together in saying this is because the guys in charge of it sacked the previous manager. Had Mancini been in charge there'd be collective sticky biscuit sessions about how top our signings were and how Mancini had finally been backed by the board.

All this faux cynicism is very very transparent.

 

[SWP's back]

Ferran and Txiki will be going nowhere any time soon.
As for them not getting on with Bob, have you considered Bob maybe didn't want to get on with them?
Something backed up by his comments of them not being his boss.

You are plain wrong if you think that. They have two seasons tops, to start delivering on the promises they made. If they don't deliver they will be gone,

No, they are here to stay.<br /><br />-- Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:19 am --<br /><br />

BTW I think they will be successful - I'm just saying the way it now is.

No, you are saying it the way you see it, big difference.

 

[supercity88]

It gets very frustrating to see the lack of patience from some City fans on here. We have endured tough times over the years and the club is in a better position than it has ever been in. These guys have helped organise Barcelona into one of the greatest sides in football history. Yes in terms of the football they were well on the way to that success already but they had faith in Guardiola and the academy system and marketed Barca into a massive global force. What is important from our point of view is that they know exactly what the foundations were at Barca and how things were done, we are building a massive new training facility for the club and have changed the coaching set up so that in the long term we will be producing talent from the local area and beyond that can go on and play for the club.

They have brought in Pellegrini because he reflects their style of management and will help the club meet both their short term and long term goals. This transfer window we bought well and bought early and resolved the issue we had in the previous window. We had an unsustainable system in place from the Hughes and Mancini era where we paid massive wages to sign players that otherwise wouldn’t have joined city. We offloaded some of the top earners and have a much more balanced structure now. The core of our squad is solid and has played together for a few seasons and have many years ahead of them (aside from Yaya possibly).

City have become a global name and we are continuing to market the club across the world to ensure we can compete off the field financially with the top clubs in the world. On the pitch we have won the cup, reached the final, won the league and qualified for the Champions League consistently, should we make it through the group stage this season another goal has been achieved. It is too early in the season to criticise these two simply because of an away defeat to Cardiff.

Mancini wanted to pay big money for the top names, he wanted Cavani this season at all costs. That is not how the club is able to function anymore and for that reason (amongst others) he had to go.

 

[Skashion]

We had an unsustainable system in place from the Mancini era where we paid massive wages to sign players that otherwise wouldn’t have joined city.

Which players signed under Mancini on massive wages have we offloaded?

 

[hgblue]

Can't for the life of me think how people could be so misinformed about their own club that they think that if this season doesn't go according to plan that Txiki and Ferran will be "out". It's an absolute nonsense. Soriano is actually running not just City, but the NY club too. Txiki has been given the task of putting a coaching structure in place not just for the first team, but our hundred million pound brand new Etihad Campus. These guys are here for the medium to long term, and there's in my opinion fuck all that can happen to change that.

It's also a bit dim to be making sneering comments about one or two youth team players being let go as if this somehow flies in the face of the long term vision of the club. The Campus isn't even open yet, and only once it's open and it's been in use for some years will it really begin to bare fruit. It's apparent that our previous two managers cared not one bit about the youth/reserve teams, which is why they ended up in such a shambolic state. Txiki in particular has been brought in to rectify this, but it's about scouting and player development, and anyone who thinks it's going to happen today or tomorrow is deluded. It'll take time, but at least with these guys we're moving in the right direction rather than under previous regimes where the people who should've been giving a fuck about the academy set up, simply didn't.

-- Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:05 am --

Both men deserve huge amounts of praise. The transfer business we've conducted is the best of the top 6 clubs with possibly the exception of Spurs.

mmmm, not only is the jury still out it hasn't even been picked yet.

better than Ed across the road I suppose.

Bollocks. You can take your jury and deliberate wherever you want Bill ... our summer transfer business has been top draw. The only reason the whole forum isn't together in saying this is because the guys in charge of it sacked the previous manager. Had Mancini been in charge there'd be collective sticky biscuit sessions about how top our signings were and how Mancini had finally been backed by the board.

All this faux cynicism is very very transparent.

I was a Mancini Outer and I'm not happy with the summer transfer dealings?
We needed a top quality centre back so that we're not overly reliant on Vinny, and we needed a top quality holding midfielder, especially if we knew we were offloading Barry.

 

[Troubadour]

The manager we had needed backing not sacking. In that they failed.

Agreed

I also agree. However, I think regardless of the who the manager was when the Spanish duo were appointed their jacket would have been on a shaky nail. It was clear they had been given the mandate to manage the club by the sheik & Khaldoon from top to bottom. Hence any strong manager who sees that his 'authority' has been eroded will respond accordingly. Mancini obviously took it a bit to far but its more than likely he knew he was toast regardless of what he did so reacted like he did with a 'fuck you' attitude to one and all before he finally got boot. Last years fuck up in the transfer window was no mistake. It was very much a plan and by design to significantly weaken Mancini's position and it worked to a tee. Hence it is no surprise just how different thing have been manged and done in this transfer window.

Having worked for some very large global organisations in the past the term 'holistic' in reality means 'our way or the highway' a more 'inclusive' person is required to be very much a 'yes man'. Mancini most certainly isn't that creature (as Ferguson, Mourhino, Wenger et al are also not). Pellegrini probably is and hence probably one of the main reasons why he got the gig at MCFC.

For the above reasons I for one will not hold Pellegrini 100% accountable for what happens on the pitch be it good or bad. The Spanish duo are very much pulling all of the strings and hence will deserve their fair share of credit or blame at the end of the season.
I also don't buy the rubbish that this is a 'transitional season' - that is just a case of some people getting their excuses in early. With the squad Pellegrini inherited and the changes / additions that the Director of Football has made a top 2 finish a domestic trophy and thru to the knock out stages of the CL is an absolute minimum we should expect. Anything less will be failure and will be needed to be accepted as failure by all concerned.

 

[Anonymous]

Anything less will be failure and will be needed to be accepted as failure by all concerned.

Failure it may well be, I said as much the other day. However it won't effect the management structure in any way and people's jobs won't suddenly be on the line. What we've seen from Khaldoon is that everyone employed at City is given plenty of rope. How they use it is down to them. Further from that, since the DoF's remit is to work both at first team level and at academy level, and because we haven't even opened the Etihad campus yet, and Txiki hasn't even been in situ 12 months, I would suggest that there is a minimum of 5 years which will be given to both him and Ferran to shape the long term future of the club. They didn't change Barcelona overnight and I don't think anyone expects them to change City overnight either.

 

[adrianr]

Anything less will be failure and will be needed to be accepted as failure by all concerned.

Failure it may well be, I said as much the other day. However it won't effect the management structure in any way and people's jobs won't suddenly be on the line. What we've seen from Khaldoon is that everyone employed at City is given plenty of rope. How they use it is down to them. Further from that, since the DoF's remit is to work both at first team level and at academy level, and because we haven't even opened the Etihad campus yet, and Txiki hasn't even been in situ 12 months, I would suggest that there is a minimum of 5 years which will be given to both him and Ferran to shape the long term future of the club. They didn't change Barcelona overnight and I don't think anyone expects them to change City overnight either.

Bang on. Anyone thinking we'll sack either of them after a shit season is probably leaning more towards hope than reality.