Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

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Good thread this.. interesting stuff..

I'm not too clear on the exact duties of ferran & txiki... other than the obvious..

lets say pellegrini finishes 4th with no silverware.. will F&T or T&F get rid?

Just wondering what you think.. because I don't want us to turn into a chelsea chopping and changing every season..
 
stevenryals said:
Good thread this.. interesting stuff..

I'm not too clear on the exact duties of ferran & txiki... other than the obvious..

lets say pellegrini finishes 4th with no silverware.. will F&T or T&F get rid?

Just wondering what you think.. because I don't want us to turn into a chelsea chopping and changing every season..

I would say they will get at least 2 seasons if results are not completely unacceptable (a place in the CL being an absolute prerequisite). After that without any silverware they will be under serious pressure and rightly so.

Hopefully it will not get to that.
 
Troubadour said:
stevenryals said:
Good thread this.. interesting stuff..

I'm not too clear on the exact duties of ferran & txiki... other than the obvious..

lets say pellegrini finishes 4th with no silverware.. will F&T or T&F get rid?

Just wondering what you think.. because I don't want us to turn into a chelsea chopping and changing every season..

I would say they will get at least 2 seasons if results are not completely unacceptable (a place in the CL being an absolute prerequisite). After that without any silverware they will be under serious pressure and rightly so.

Hopefully it will not get to that.

It must be a top three finish. There is always a risk finishing forth and for other reasons of forward planning. I think that ADUG could live without silverware for a year but not being top three would be unnacceptable, in my view.

So, now we are in the second five year plan. What are the targets beyond finishing top three every year? I'd say a league title or three, the bonus of the odd cup and a very good stab at the CL, at least to a few semis of not more.
 
toffee balls said:
Good thread this one.

The Barca "football" model is being copied lots of ways but , at this moment , appears to be missing one previously vital ingredient.

Ferran openly admits that Barca blantently copied the rags global financial marketing stategy as they were lagging behind terribly but they needed something / somebody to drive this ethos far and wide.

The missing ingredient Ronaldhinho , a global superstar.
Laterly replaced by Messi .

Who is ours ??

As proved by Robinho, you don't put the star in there till you've created the base.

And besides, it's not ALL about stars, and there's no reason that Silva, Aguero, Vinnie and Hart can't become that by performing at a world class level for and build their rep like every other star has, besides I think we would look to get stars from our new academy in 5-10 years time moulded in the way we want them so they're less disruptive, maybe a Reus might be our marquee player next summer but we have to go off and do really well in the league and Europe to entice players to come here when it comes down to a battle between us, Bayern, Real, Barca, Chelsea, PSG, Monaco and United.
 
LoveCity said:
If not for an appalling offside decision, Negredo would already have 1/4 of Tevez's goal total in the league last season after 77 minutes on the pitch for us. As it is, he has 2 goals in 77 minutes (Tevez scored 11 in 2400 minutes).

You can't just base a squad on individual quality, but how each player fits into the system and performs. I mean, Balotelli last season for us contributed no more than a 17-year-old from the EDS would have. 1 goal in 14 games, because he couldn't be arsed and didn't want to be here.

The only place I'd say we're DEFINITELY weaker is Garcia in De Jong's spot, unless Pellegrini can get Garcia resembling the decent player he looked at Benfica.
There's no doubting the quality of City's players, particularly the new signings

Can they play together? Can Navas play with Silva? Don't give me Spain. They play with a max of 1 striker so that they dominate the midfield and we've got 4 strikers.

Pellegrini and Txiki have bought top players, but I don't see how they can work unless we go with 1 striker, or we use Navas like AJ.
 
MadchesterCity said:
Kippaxstreetheadache said:
peoffrey said:
He blatantly was. A despicably arrogant bad loser with abysmal man management skills. Sheikh Mansour's money won us those pots. Numerous managers could've achieved it and some with more diplomacy would still be in charge now.

What's the point of taking us in to the Champions League when we can't get past the group stages?

Nonsense.

Aren't you the notorious Hughes fanboy?

He couldn't do it could he? In spite of all the money he threw at it.

The denigration of Mancini's character and his achievements at City following his sacking, by some blues, really turns my stomach.

Seems to be fashionable now too, which is even worse.

Mancini was a hard task master, but his impact at City was immediate. He knocked heads together, when he was appointed he transformed us from a shambolic team of individuals who couldn't defend a two goal lead into a solid and cohesive unit almost overnight.

He was an autocrat, but at that period of our development it was effective. He accepted nothing but ultimate commitment to the cause, anyone who undermined him or didn't pull his weight was sent packing. We had countless players on the books who weren't fit for purpose, were here for all the wrong reasons (money) and didn't have the right attitude to be a success at City. Mancini either whipped them into shape or included them in a massive cull of deadwood.

Too many of the playing staff didn't have the attitude of winners, too many accepted defeat and didn't have the required mental fortitude to cut it at the level we aspired to.

Mancini recognised those players and disposed of them like household waste. A good thing as far as I'm concerned, we didn't have the time for sentiment back then.

The players whom Mancini recognised to be made right stuff were drilled and drilled until they knew and fully understood their role in his set-up, no stone was left unturned.

Numerous players were transformed from wildly inconsistent and under performing, to key stalwarts of the side that represents us in the Champions League today.

Kompany was on the bench when Mancini arrived. Usually deployed in defensive midfield, he was being kept out of central defence by the then manager's two big money signings, Lescott and Kolo Toure. Both players couldn't buy a clean sheet and then defence was a shambles. Mancini immediately introduced Kompany into the side, and transformed him into a player who is now considered one of the greatest players in his position, in the whole of Europe.

Richards was erratic and didn't understand the core responsibilities of his position. Mancini transformed him into a reliable fullback while maintaining his attacking threat.

Zabaleta was a hardworking but apparently average player who rarely played, and when he did he was rash in the tackle and average both defensively and going forward. Today Zabaleta is regarded as the league's best right back and was the club's player of the year last season.

Barry was wholly unreliable, uncomfortable in possession, slow in thought and had many people openly doubting his worth to the side. Became the first name on the team sheet under Mancini, established himself as our most reliable performer, shielding the defence and keeping the ball moving quickly in midfield. Proved himself instrumental in our title winning season.

Joe Hart was on loan at Birmingham, and was questioning his future at City. Mancini brought him back from loan, introduced him back into the side dropping Given, to the tune of a man of the match performance at WHL. Quickly established himself as among the best in the league and became England's number one. Has since won 3 golden gloves.

Improved both Lescott and Kolo Toure, the former became a key player in our title winning season.

I'm sure there are more, but you catch the drift.

We went through an enormous transition under Mancini. When he took over we were a mid-table side with ambitions of a top four place. When he left 3 and a half years later we were an established member of the 'elite' and had an FA Cup and league title to our name.

He never did the arm round the shoulder, but his 'win at all costs' mentality and attention to detail earned us a Premier League title. It also saw us play some of the best football the division has seen since Arsene Wenger's invincibles.

It saw us take Chelsea's fortress record in a 2-4 win at Stamford Bridge. It saw us win the FA Cup. It saw us humiliate United 1-6 at Old Trafford. It saw us win the Premier League.

I think there is an argument that Mancini began to grate for many at the club, his autocratic ways and harsh manner souring the mood as results suffered.

Maybe we needed the fresh start, a fresh pair of hands? A more diplomatic manager who is liked by his players, and able to soothe the supposed unrest that developed.

But like Mancini and Hughes before him, he will be measured by results. I just fear that many of our players needed an autocrat, there shall be no such excuses from them in May should we fail to improve on last season.

But I digress. The disparaging terms many on here talk of Mancini is absurd, and I think you should reflect more closely on your critique of him as a manager.

Post of the seasom

Agreed I have a gut feeling we may regret sacking that bloke I really do!!
 
Kippaxstreetheadache said:
Numerous players were transformed from wildly inconsistent and under performing, to key stalwarts of the side that represents us in the Champions League today.

Kompany was on the bench when Mancini arrived. Usually deployed in defensive midfield, he was being kept out of central defence by the then manager's two big money signings, Lescott and Kolo Toure. Both players couldn't buy a clean sheet and then defence was a shambles. Mancini immediately introduced Kompany into the side, and transformed him into a player who is now considered one of the greatest players in his position, in the whole of Europe.

Richards was erratic and didn't understand the core responsibilities of his position. Mancini transformed him into a reliable fullback while maintaining his attacking threat.

Zabaleta was a hardworking but apparently average player who rarely played, and when he did he was rash in the tackle and average both defensively and going forward. Today Zabaleta is regarded as the league's best right back and was the club's player of the year last season.

Barry was wholly unreliable, uncomfortable in possession, slow in thought and had many people openly doubting his worth to the side. Became the first name on the team sheet under Mancini, established himself as our most reliable performer, shielding the defence and keeping the ball moving quickly in midfield. Proved himself instrumental in our title winning season.

Joe Hart was on loan at Birmingham, and was questioning his future at City. Mancini brought him back from loan, introduced him back into the side dropping Given, to the tune of a man of the match performance at WHL. Quickly established himself as among the best in the league and became England's number one. Has since won 3 golden gloves.

Improved both Lescott and Kolo Toure, the former became a key player in our title winning season.

I'm sure there are more, but you catch the drift.

We went through an enormous transition under Mancini. When he took over we were a mid-table side with ambitions of a top four place. When he left 3 and a half years later we were an established member of the 'elite' and had an FA Cup and league title to our name.

He never did the arm round the shoulder, but his 'win at all costs' mentality and attention to detail earned us a Premier League title. It also saw us play some of the best football the division has seen since Arsene Wenger's invincibles.

It saw us take Chelsea's fortress record in a 2-4 win at Stamford Bridge. It saw us win the FA Cup. It saw us humiliate United 1-6 at Old Trafford. It saw us win the Premier League.

I think there is an argument that Mancini began to grate for many at the club, his autocratic ways and harsh manner souring the mood as results suffered.

Maybe we needed the fresh start, a fresh pair of hands? A more diplomatic manager who is liked by his players, and able to soothe the supposed unrest that developed.

But like Mancini and Hughes before him, he will be measured by results. I just fear that many of our players needed an autocrat, there shall be no such excuses from them in May should we fail to improve on last season.

But I digress. The disparaging terms many on here talk of Mancini is absurd, and I think you should reflect more closely on your critique of him as a manager.

I agree with most of what you say and thought Mancini did a great job but in the interests of historical accuracy.

Kompany was initially introduced by Mancini as a matter of necessity as both Lescott and Onouha were injured. He did of course retain his place after that.

He was notoriously unable to recall Hart from his loan spell and we ended up getting Fulop in as an emergency when Given and his backups were injured. The following season Hart was used and Given when fully recovered from injury could not regain his place.
 
adrianr said:
BillyShears said:
Troubadour said:
Anything less will be failure and will be needed to be accepted as failure by all concerned.

Failure it may well be, I said as much the other day. However it won't effect the management structure in any way and people's jobs won't suddenly be on the line. What we've seen from Khaldoon is that everyone employed at City is given plenty of rope. How they use it is down to them. Further from that, since the DoF's remit is to work both at first team level and at academy level, and because we haven't even opened the Etihad campus yet, and Txiki hasn't even been in situ 12 months, I would suggest that there is a minimum of 5 years which will be given to both him and Ferran to shape the long term future of the club. They didn't change Barcelona overnight and I don't think anyone expects them to change City overnight either.

Bang on. Anyone thinking we'll sack either of them after a shit season is probably leaning more towards hope than reality.

So the manager is a crash test dummy to be ejected when things don't work out?
Dream on if you think that is the case. Under the Sheikh THEY WILL be given plenty of rope to manage (as you say) but equally, they will be made responsible for their actions

For one, I highly doubt Txiki they would survive if we miss out on the Champions League qualification (not that we should of course - the squad has been strengthened considerably at a cost of £96m).

The Sheikh backed them over Mancini (he was never not going too), however; he is unlikely to forgot the way the sacking was handled and how it effected the clubs chances of another trophy and how that reflected on him - as by any standard of management performance - it was just about the wrong way to go about it. You publicly back 100% till the deed is done, or come clean with the person concerned (but give them the chance to have one last hurrah - but dismiss immediately if they are not interested).
 
stevenryals said:
Good thread this.. interesting stuff..

I'm not too clear on the exact duties of ferran & txiki... other than the obvious..

lets say pellegrini finishes 4th with no silverware.. will F&T or T&F get rid?

Just wondering what you think.. because I don't want us to turn into a chelsea chopping and changing every season..
I think if we finish 4th and no silverware, soriano and tricky will be out faster than shit through a goose.
 
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