Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

[hgblue]

I think that's an extremely misguided opinion on Txiki, you can already see the immensely positive work that has been done and anyone who argues otherwise is either not paying attention or just doesn't want to listen.

Or disagrees with your opinion.

you can only disagree if you ignore facts, which then returns to my previous post.

Which facts would these be?

 

[Skashion]

Which facts would these be?

You impertinent bastard, how dare you question whether JMW's opinions can be properly defined as 'facts'.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Or disagrees with your opinion.

you can only disagree if you ignore facts, which then returns to my previous post.

Which facts would these be?

That under Txiki's guidance we've brought in 5 good players for about £95m and strengthened our squad. We've renegotiated down the basic wages of some of our top stars such as Yaya etc. and put them on Barca-esque contracts. We've removed expensive wages such as Tevez and Balotelli saving us nearly £50m and brought in younger and cheaper options. We've revamped the academy structure bringing an EDS Manager in Patrick Vieira who not only commands respect but has great experience and knowledge from the Arsenal ways of the early noughties and how players were bought young, brought through and developed, and this goes hand in hand with the homegrown nature of La Masia that Txiki presided over. Finally we've also secured some very good loans for young players to big clubs such as Harry Bunn to Sheff Utd, Abdul Razak to Anzhi, Karim Rekik to PSV, showing that we're finally capable of sending our youngsters to good clubs and not sending them perennially to dead-end loans and thus making up ground to the likes of United and Chelsea who frequently send their players to good clubs to ply their trade whilst developing. These are all positive steps that have happened this summer alone under Txiki.

 

[hgblue]

you can only disagree if you ignore facts, which then returns to my previous post.

Which facts would these be?

That under Txiki's guidance we've brought in 5 good players for about £95m and strengthened our squad. We've renegotiated down the basic wages of some of our top stars such as Yaya etc. and put them on Barca-esque contracts. We've removed expensive wages such as Tevez and Balotelli saving us nearly £50m and brought in younger and cheaper options. We've revamped the academy structure bringing an EDS Manager in Patrick Vieira who not only commands respect but has great experience and knowledge from the Arsenal ways of the early noughties and how players were bought young, brought through and developed, and this goes hand in hand with the homegrown nature of La Masia that Txiki presided over. Finally we've also secured some very good loans for young players to big clubs such as Harry Bunn to Sheff Utd, Abdul Razak to Anzhi, Karim Rekik to PSV, showing that we're finally capable of sending our youngsters to good clubs and not sending them perennially to dead-end loans and thus making up ground to the likes of United and Chelsea who frequently send their players to good clubs to ply their trade whilst developing. These are all positive steps that have happened this summer alone under Txiki.

Ok, try these facts for size. Two seasons before the arrival of the dynamic duo we won the fa cup. The season before we won the league. Since their arrival we've won bugger all.

 

[George Hannah]

Which facts would these be?

That under Txiki's guidance we've brought in 5 good players for about £95m and strengthened our squad. We've renegotiated down the basic wages of some of our top stars such as Yaya etc. and put them on Barca-esque contracts. We've removed expensive wages such as Tevez and Balotelli saving us nearly £50m and brought in younger and cheaper options. We've revamped the academy structure bringing an EDS Manager in Patrick Vieira who not only commands respect but has great experience and knowledge from the Arsenal ways of the early noughties and how players were bought young, brought through and developed, and this goes hand in hand with the homegrown nature of La Masia that Txiki presided over. Finally we've also secured some very good loans for young players to big clubs such as Harry Bunn to Sheff Utd, Abdul Razak to Anzhi, Karim Rekik to PSV, showing that we're finally capable of sending our youngsters to good clubs and not sending them perennially to dead-end loans and thus making up ground to the likes of United and Chelsea who frequently send their players to good clubs to ply their trade whilst developing. These are all positive steps that have happened this summer alone under Txiki.

Ok, try these facts for size. Two seasons before the arrival of the dynamic duo we won the fa cup. The season before we won the league. Since their arrival we've won bugger all.

Asia Cup Champions!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TGR]

Or disagrees with your opinion.

you can only disagree if you ignore facts, which then returns to my previous post.

Which facts would these be?

If you want to talk about 'facts' - there is only one man for the job...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaZYhTd2BU[/youtube]

 

[Skashion]

That under Txiki's guidance we've brought in 5 good players for about £95m and strengthened our squad. We've renegotiated down the basic wages of some of our top stars such as Yaya etc. and put them on Barca-esque contracts. We've removed expensive wages such as Tevez and Balotelli saving us nearly £50m and brought in younger and cheaper options. We've revamped the academy structure bringing an EDS Manager in Patrick Vieira who not only commands respect but has great experience and knowledge from the Arsenal ways of the early noughties and how players were bought young, brought through and developed, and this goes hand in hand with the homegrown nature of La Masia that Txiki presided over. Finally we've also secured some very good loans for young players to big clubs such as Harry Bunn to Sheff Utd, Abdul Razak to Anzhi, Karim Rekik to PSV, showing that we're finally capable of sending our youngsters to good clubs and not sending them perennially to dead-end loans and thus making up ground to the likes of United and Chelsea who frequently send their players to good clubs to ply their trade whilst developing. These are all positive steps that have happened this summer alone under Txiki.

I can spot several definite non-facts in there. Balotelli wasn't on expensive wages. He was on £4m a year. We haven't brought in anyone younger than him. We sold a 22 year old Balotelli, and a 29 year old Tevez, average age; 25.5 years old. We have bought Demichelis 32, Negredo 28, Fernandinho 28, Navas 27, Jovetic 23, average age; 27.6 years old. We've brought in older players on average. Saved £50 million a year? Show me the numbers. We certainly won't be saving that amount if we are successful - which you're saying we will be. Significant wage savings depend on us not winning anything. We have not saved that much from outgoing players (two of which, Bridge and Roque Santa Cruz we've been waiting to shift for years and so deserve no credit for the end of their contracts arrived on their watch) because we've brought in five new ones who aren't playing for free. We were sending players to good clubs before Txiki arrived i.e. Guidetti at Feyenoord. Patrick Vieira has been doing his coaching badges since he retired so the idea that this is an inspired move from way out of the blue is nonsense. It was on the cards. La Masia was turning our decent players long before Txiki, in fact, nearly all of Barcelona's homegrown stars, certainly the players who really contributed to their trophy wins, were either already playing for the first team or playing for Barcelona B or C before he arrived. He did not create La Masia.

So, although Txiki has done well, he's brought in five (not young - apart from Jovetic) players I believe will do well for us. He's added balance to the side, and if we win nothing we will save on wages. If we do win something we'll spend more on wages due to increased bonuses. I support that approach, it's good overall management of resources, but he hasn't performed magic and he hasn't saved £50m. If we win something our accounts will show higher wages than the previous financial year, we can be quite reasonably sure of that. Soriano is also doing good work in growing our commercial revenue. Overall, I like our Spanish duo but from the way your 'facts' tell it, we've been useless up to this point, and we are untouchable afterwards. Nonsense.

 

[pinkwheeltrim]

To be honest, I don't know much about them, and I've certainly never met them, but gut feeling.....

























Pair of cunts!

 

[LoveCity]

Balotelli wasn't on expensive wages. He was on £4m a year.

Balotelli was on around £120,000/week (<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/9755083/Manchester-Citys-Mario-Balotelli-accepts-340000-fine.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -fine.html</a> + <a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17293830" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17293830</a>), which amounts to £5.7million/year. Also, he was doing absolutely nothing to justify such wages and couldn't be arsed last season with 1 goal in half a season. Negredo has doubled (should be tripled but for the wrongly disallowed goal) Balotelli's league goal tally from last season in 79 minutes on the pitch. Meaning it isn't always about the most glamorous or talented names, but the ones who fit the squad better and have the right attitude. Most would, on paper, choose Balotelli over Negredo yet Negredo appears to fit our side like a glove on early evidence.

We haven't brought in anyone younger than him. We sold a 22 year old Balotelli, and a 29 year old Tevez, average age; 25.5 years old. We have bought Demichelis 32, Negredo 28, Fernandinho 28, Navas 27, Jovetic 23, average age; 27.6 years old. We've brought in older players on average.

We've brought in experienced, mature players + one of Europe's most admired young talents. What's wrong with that when Champions League is an immediate priority and most of these guys have some sort of experience on the big stage, be it for club or country? If we start signing only 21-24 year olds too, it will reduce the chances of the EDS players that the club is adamant on bringing through when they find players good enough (like Marcos Lopes).

Saved £50 million a year? Show me the numbers.

It's closer to £30million that we have saved since January with approx. £50million off the wage bill (Tevez, Balotelli, Barry [Everton paying all of his wages], Sinclair [WBA paying most of his wages], Maicon, Kolo, RSC, Bridge, M. Johnson) but about £20million back on it with the five new signings. I've gone through the reported wages and based on them a £30million reduction on the wage bill is about accurate. I'll be surprised if we're still the best paying team in world sports this season.

We certainly won't be saving that amount if we are successful - which you're saying we will be. Significant wage savings depend on us not winning anything.

If the bonus-driven contracts are all triggered to their maximum, then we will have won everything and revenue from said success will offset the increased wage costs. Still won't amount to close to the £30million saved on the entire wage bill even if all bonuses (Premier League + FA Cup + Champions League) are triggered since there is a wage ceiling.

La Masia was turning our decent players long before Txiki, in fact, nearly all of Barcelona's homegrown stars, certainly the players who really contributed to their trophy wins, were either already playing for the first team or playing for Barcelona B or C before he arrived. He did not create La Masia.

He did not, but La Masia flourished more than it ever has during Txiki's reign as Barcelona director of football from 2003 to 2010. He was responsible for making sure the right coaches were in place and made the choice to appoint Guardiola as coach of the B team, then had a major say in the club snubbing Mourinho to put Guardiola in charge of the main team. In short, he has history in running a club with a healthy youth policy and is one of the best men we could have in place to improve our youth policy.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Which facts would these be?

That under Txiki's guidance we've brought in 5 good players for about £95m and strengthened our squad. We've renegotiated down the basic wages of some of our top stars such as Yaya etc. and put them on Barca-esque contracts. We've removed expensive wages such as Tevez and Balotelli saving us nearly £50m and brought in younger and cheaper options. We've revamped the academy structure bringing an EDS Manager in Patrick Vieira who not only commands respect but has great experience and knowledge from the Arsenal ways of the early noughties and how players were bought young, brought through and developed, and this goes hand in hand with the homegrown nature of La Masia that Txiki presided over. Finally we've also secured some very good loans for young players to big clubs such as Harry Bunn to Sheff Utd, Abdul Razak to Anzhi, Karim Rekik to PSV, showing that we're finally capable of sending our youngsters to good clubs and not sending them perennially to dead-end loans and thus making up ground to the likes of United and Chelsea who frequently send their players to good clubs to ply their trade whilst developing. These are all positive steps that have happened this summer alone under Txiki.

Ok, try these facts for size. Two seasons before the arrival of the dynamic duo we won the fa cup. The season before we won the league. Since their arrival we've won bugger all.

And who was the manager? Sorry but you can't pin the blame at the duo's door like that when Mancini was a big contribution to our failure last season. A good part of our failed transfer policy was his reluctance to move away from A-list targets it was clear we weren't going to acquire, he dug his heels and with Marwood fulfilling much of Txiki's role at the time it lead to the same situation United found themselves in at the end of this window. Then you have to look at 3-5-2 which he decided to implement even though many players came back late from an international summer and barely played it together in pre-season. His tactics, substitutions and general ability to slag his own players off, key ones that have done little more than try their best for this club in the past few seasons to great success at that, was a major if not the major contributor to last season's downfall. Previous seasons aside, last season it unravelled for Mancini and his attitude to authority put the final nail in the coffin, you can blame the duo all you want but for the long-term strategy to work there needs to be harmony and everyone pulling in the same direction, Mancini refused to as shown by his desire to get Cavani whatever the cost, it doesn't fit into what we want to do anymore from the Chairman down, and to be so short term minded about things is going to get any fan nowhere at this stage.