Finding the right balance in midfield

[Didsbury Dave]

I will go for Yaya & Nasri in the middle.

We'd be in danger of relegation if they were our two holding midfielders. I mean that seriously.

 

[Rammy Blue]

I'd still like to have a proper look at NDJ and Yaya in front of the back 4; seems a bit ridiculous, to me, to think that anyone would rate Barry above Yaya - I know they have different qualities but I certainly can't see Bob benching Yaya whilst keeping Barry in the side.

If you remember pre-season it looked like Barry was already being relegated to acting as cover as Milner was ahead of him.

It's not about rating Yaya above Barry, Rammy. That's the thing. If I had to put my mortgage on either of them to score a 1 on 1 or thread a pass it would be Ya Ya. It's about the pairing. I was starting to think that Milner might be edging past Barry becuase of Barry's lack of pace but then I've seen the way we play one touch pass and move this year and Milner just isn't a good enough footballer.

I just don't think Ya Ya is a defensive midfielder because of the way he looks to exploit space, and also because of the way he goes into the tackle. He might be better alongside Nige, and I do believe that will be the manager's first choice pairing. But I wou'dn't pick it. I'd play Ya Ya in last season's role in the games where we expect to come under some pressure. I'd leave him out of games like Sunday's where our attackers can tear a defence to shreds. I do however appreciate the manager had limited options in this area at the weekend, and I would have picked the same team he did man for man.

I always get shit for this but I've always believed it: Ya Ya often gives you as many problems as he solves. Sunday was a case in point.

Don't get me wrong mate, I wasn't having a pop regards rating Barry ahead of Yaya - merely pointing out that I can't ever see a teamsheet where Yaya is on the bench with Barry starting. Consequently it means that Bob will need to shoehorn Yaya into the role alongside NDJ when he is back. We just haven't seen enough of the pairing to see if it works well, funnily enough one pairing we haven't seen yet is Milner and Yaya which without having seen it certainly feels to me that it could work.

Assuming all fit I do think Bob will revert to last years system when we play the big boys with just three of the fab four in the side.

 

[ifiwasarichfan]

Part of the issue with Yaya is he's the absolute opposite of Silva. Silva seems to just love playing football, regardless of the score he wants to recieve the ball and create chances. Conversely Yaya just seems to want to win games for the least possible effort, if we're 3-0 up he just wants the game over and done with. Consequently Yaya doesn't take a major role in demolition jobs and doesn't get the plaudits for them. So automatically he is at somewhat of a disadvantage when it comes to general opinion, and the more we dominate teams the less he's going to do.

But the secondary problem is he just can not work in tight spaces. Largely because he's so fucking huge they are even more tight for him, all he can really do is spread the play wide and take long shots. Dave I think this is your problem with him right?

Then, crucially for me, there's the times we need a goal and there's ample space for him to attack. That's when he comes into his own because he can drive with the ball and his long range accuracy can lead to devastating counter attacks.

Oh and most importantly of all, he has balls. When our other players were spurning chance after chance at Wembley, Yaya won us the game. And I think he feels a sense of responsibility in that respect, his past year has been one of the whole team failing to score when we need to most. Possibly why he takes long shots in the dying moments? A lack of trust.


Anyway to bring it all together, to me he's the most horses for courses player we have. There's simply no point playing him against a side who'll defend backs to the wall [Unless we try him as a ball playing centre back; but that's another debate for another day] because generally he'll run straight into the wall and lose the ball. For me he needs to play in all the big games and away from home, this is where he's at home and his courage and composure come into play. Games like Wigan and Swansea don't come into the equation, anyone could do what he does and just sit and pass.

Edit: I don't even consider him a defensive player, because he isn't. Honestly as a pure defensive mid he's nothing - but he can play that deep lying play maker role well.

That's a very good post indeed and a good summary of my feelings. I'm glad someone can see what I'm getting at. The actual games where he can excel in he really does excel - like United at WEmbley where they are coming at us and it's a big pitch. But the majority of games he offers little.

There's no doubt he has lots of ability, but in some ways he's a luxury player, much as I hate that term.

I am sorry Dave, but to say in most games that Yaya " offers very little" is doing him a great disservice. He proved to be a key player for us last Season and will again this.

I think it is far to early in the Season at the moment for us to get tied up in this question of "Balance".

We have at our disposal a wide variety of midfielders, all of whom bring something different to the party, here I am counting Silva and Nasri as midfielders and not as attacking forwards.

We could also still benefit yet from Hargreaves - a "man of the match" winner in virtually every "Big" game he played.

As the season develops they will all play their parts and we can only assume that the Manager gets his choices right at the vital times.

Moving back to Yaya; I would like to see him in "rotation" with Silva/Nasri further up - I think he is excellent when AJ is in the side and slipping in the pass that comes before the final pass. He also has Goals in his game.

 

[flb]

Hart
Richards Kompany Lescott Clichy
De Jong Barry
Aguero Silva Nasri
Dzeko



Our strongest team for me,excellent cover and passing ability inf ront fo the back four,the rest pick themselves.

DD makes a great point about Yaya,hes more suited to a midfield 4 for me.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I agree with you, Rammy, that the upshot of our current slight brittleness may be a reverting to last year's midfield three for certain games. In a way it's a shame because the way we tore Spurs apart was breathtaking. I also think Mancini will shoehorn Ya Ya in the side if he can, even though I don't think it's necessarily best for the team.

But I'm going around in circles now. Valuable discussion this though, and crucial to this season.

 

[Tevez City]

I will go for Yaya & Nasri in the middle.

We'd be in danger of relegation if they were our two holding midfielders. I mean that seriously.

Do you remember how United beat Chelsea last season ?

4-1-3-2

_________ Carrick __________

Nani______Giggs______Park

____Rooney____Hernandez

How Spurs beat Liverpool yesterday ?

4-1-3-2

___________Parker__________

Kranjcar___Modric______Bale

_____Ade_________ Defoe


we can use it with

_________Yaya________

AJ_______Nasri_____Silva

____Kun________Dzeko

 

[Boots_]

I'd still like to have a proper look at NDJ and Yaya in front of the back 4; seems a bit ridiculous, to me, to think that anyone would rate Barry above Yaya - I know they have different qualities but I certainly can't see Bob benching Yaya whilst keeping Barry in the side.

If you remember pre-season it looked like Barry was already being relegated to acting as cover as Milner was ahead of him.

It's not about rating Yaya above Barry, Rammy. That's the thing. If I had to put my mortgage on either of them to score a 1 on 1 or thread a pass it would be Ya Ya. It's about the pairing. I was starting to think that Milner might be edging past Barry becuase of Barry's lack of pace but then I've seen the way we play one touch pass and move this year and Milner just isn't a good enough footballer.

I just don't think Ya Ya is a defensive midfielder because of the way he looks to exploit space, and also because of the way he goes into the tackle. He might be better alongside Nige, and I do believe that will be the manager's first choice pairing. But I wou'dn't pick it. I'd play Ya Ya in last season's role in the games where we expect to come under some pressure. I'd leave him out of games like Sunday's where our attackers can tear a defence to shreds. I do however appreciate the manager had limited options in this area at the weekend, and I would have picked the same team he did man for man.

I always get shit for this but I've always believed it: Ya Ya often gives you as many problems as he solves. Sunday was a case in point.

Don't get me wrong mate, I wasn't having a pop regards rating Barry ahead of Yaya - merely pointing out that I can't ever see a teamsheet where Yaya is on the bench with Barry starting. Consequently it means that Bob will need to shoehorn Yaya into the role alongside NDJ when he is back. We just haven't seen enough of the pairing to see if it works well, funnily enough one pairing we haven't seen yet is Milner and Yaya which without having seen it certainly feels to me that it could work.

Assuming all fit I do think Bob will revert to last years system when we play the big boys with just three of the fab four in the side.

Wigan at home the other week?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

You're advocating a diamond midfield, Tevez. Valid point but it would need De Jong at the base of it for me, or as a backup Barry. There's no steel at all in your side and it would be back to the Hughes days - 3-3 draws and 4-3 defeats.

We'd need something like -

......................De Jong..............

..........Nasri........................BArry (or Ya ya and Nasri the other way round)

........................Silva...............

.............Aguaro............Dzeko

but I seem to recall we played that formation at WEmbley against united and they exploited the space ahead of our back four where we only had one player.

 

[Rammy Blue]

Wigan at home the other week?

Did we? If so it shows how shit my memory is, I know we played it in pre-season but didn't think I'd seen it in a league game when playing 4-2-3-1.

 

[uwe282828]

In tight away games on same pitches i think Silva needs a free roll running the game like only he can.Nasri should be cover for his role.
Its gonna be a difficult problem to solve with Dejong out.