Forever Boys by James Lawton

"old" is so subjective though - don't you think? Although in modern terms some would prefer to be a **** than to be old - how strange when you come from a universe where the expression "bleedin" and "bugger" were considered to be "tap room talk" and not fit for general usage. My dad still cringes when I swear in female company - my how the world turns!
 
For anyone who hasn't seen Lawton's vitriolic piece, here's the link:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...been-surrendered-so-pathetically-8490913.html

...

It's clear he hates the modern game but somehow sees the rags under Baconface as some sort of Corinthian guardians of what used to be.

He, along with McIlvanney, Glanville and some of the other old-school football writers, seem to have this idea that great football clubs are build by great 'football men', who mould the club in their own image by force of will. The first of these was Herbert Chapman, and then you had Busby, Shankly and Jock Stein. And they see Ferguson in the same tradition, basically, who restored United to what they were under Busby - or an even more all-conquering version of it. Whereas having some insanely wealthy foreigner swan in and throw millions at it is vulgar in their eyes.

Now, this is simplistic, misty-eyed nonsense, to a large degree, as I'm sure you agree. And the elephant in that particular room is that the clubs made by Chapman, Busby/Ferguson and Shankly decided in their altruistic concern for the overall good of the game that they didn't want a modern-day Chapman, Busby/Ferguson or Shankly turning up and moulding a rival into a great club that might supplant them. So they fixed the structure and finances of the modern game to minimise the prospects of that happening, meaning that an ambitious club can either decide to forget its aspirations and to simply know its place, or turn to someone along the lines of our owner if you can find one.

I knew he'd got fired in short order, but don't know the reasons.
Last I heard he was still writing for the Irish Independent.

When I read the book, I formed the impression that they simply thought he was past his sell-by date and there were probably financial reasons as well (they seem to be ever-present in that industry nowadays). He certainly seems to have been shocked by it and not to have seen it coming.
 
When I read the book, I formed the impression that they simply thought he was past his sell-by date and there were probably financial reasons as well (they seem to be ever-present in that industry nowadays). He certainly seems to have been shocked by it and not to have seen it coming.

Possibly because he was on the sauce!
Thinking, I had the impression that it was cost-cutting, and the Indie cut about 7 old hands as the paper struggles. It may well have been sudden. Even now they have a shockingly bad website (covered in rag propaganda), and while the smarmy Wallace has jumped ship to the Torygraph, the rag apologist Herbert is now Chief Sports Writer (heavenhelpus).
 
Possibly because he was on the sauce!
Thinking, I had the impression that it was cost-cutting, and the Indie cut about 7 old hands as the paper struggles. It may well have been sudden. Even now they have a shockingly bad website (covered in rag propaganda), and while the smarmy Wallace has jumped ship to the Torygraph, the rag apologist Herbert is now Chief Sports Writer (heavenhelpus).

I thought it was compulsory for all journalists of that generation to be old soaks? Yes, you're right, anyway. This, from the Sports Journalists Association, says that they amalgamated the sports desks of the daily and Sunday titles as well as the Evening Standard (or the Sub, as someone I knew always used to refer to it when I was in London): http://www.sportsjournalists.co.uk/journalism-news/demise-of-sports-journalism-as-jim-lawton-axed/

He took it hard, though, it seems.

Anyway, I wrote to another Fleet Street veteran who's a lovely guy and has known Lawton for around 50 years and asked, in a rather more tactful way, whether JL actually is a ****. The reply: "Jim is one of the straightest, most generous and considerate people to have crossed my path on life's journey". Straight up! :)

This doesn't necessarily stop him from being a disrespectful motherfucker, mind you!

Forever Boys is still a fabulous book, though, in my opinion.
 
Incidentally, Lawton opens the book by telling the story of how he was fired by the Independent as their chief sportswriter in a phone call from someone he'd never met. Suffused with self-pity at being cast on the scrapheap, he then goes on an extended whisky-fuelled binge that culminates in him being found on the floor of a Spanish villa and having to be rescued by his daughter, who gives him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. He recovers, is told to give up the booze or he'll die, and despite being tempted by going out in a flood of scotch, goes and writes this book instead. If you're one of those who thinks of his coverage of City post-2008 as being unforgivably disresepctful, regard this as his penance. :)
On a personal level, that is a story I can identify with, having had to rebuild my life (in very different terms) a few years ago (of which I think you're aware) and I certainly wish him no ill, personally.

Professionally, however, he is a fucking disgrace. There were numerous journalists who wrote about us in entirely disrespectful terms in the years following the takeover. They described us as arriviste imposters who simply did not belong at the top of English football, and never would. This doesn't just disrespect Manchester City, but defames any club outside the established elite and those who follow them. James Lawton was the apotheosis of this. This was in no small part due to his pontificating tone, and was brought into much sharper relief by his nauseating obsequiousness towards the Govan bully, a man who managed a club that was, and is, the very embodiment of the naked corporatism within the modern game which Lawton professes to so despise. This makes Lawton a hypocrite, a snob and a toady in equal measure - among the very worst kind of people in my book.

I wish him every success in his recovery, but do not want his turgid offerings inflicted upon me, thank you very much.
 
Possibly because he was on the sauce!
Thinking, I had the impression that it was cost-cutting, and the Indie cut about 7 old hands as the paper struggles. It may well have been sudden. Even now they have a shockingly bad website (covered in rag propaganda), and while the smarmy Wallace has jumped ship to the Torygraph, the rag apologist Herbert is now Chief Sports Writer (heavenhelpus).

The best thing they have going for them is that they employ Jack Pitt-Brooke, who, when he was still a student, used to do the excellent City blog 'The Lonesome Death of Roy Carroll'. He seems to be quite highly rated in the industry - at least, he's won Young Sports Writer at the SJA awards: http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/daily-mail-wins-top-prizes-sports-journalism-awards

He seems to have a little bit more prominence now, as well, now that Wallace has gone. He's on the London beat, though, so doesn't write much about us. Would be nice if that changed one day.

However, I'm sure any ideas of Rag bias through most of the Indy's football writers will be eased by this little gem Herbert tweeted just under a month ago:

ian herbert ‏@ianherbs Sep 29
Delighted that @MOgdenTelegraph is to be the new Chief Football Correspondent at The Independent. A brilliant appointment for us​

On a personal level, that is a story I can identify with, having had to rebuild my life (in very different terms) a few years ago (of which I think you're aware) and I certainly wish him no ill, personally.

Professionally, however, he is a fucking disgrace. There were numerous journalists who wrote about us in entirely disrespectful terms in the years following the takeover. They described us as arriviste imposters who simply did not belong at the top of English football, and never would. This doesn't just disrespect Manchester City, but defames any club outside the established elite and those who follow them. James Lawton was the apotheosis of this. This was in no small part due to his pontificating tone, and was brought into much sharper relief by his nauseating obsequiousness towards the Govan bully, a man who managed a club that was, and is, the very embodiment of the naked corporatism within the modern game which Lawton professes to so despise. This makes Lawton a hypocrite, a snob and a toady in equal measure - among the very worst kind of people in my book.

I wish him every success in his recovery, but do not want his turgid offerings inflicted upon me, thank you very much.

I can't devote the time to answering this post that it deserves, but it's an interesting issue. I agree with you that some of the reporting that followed the takeover was shocking in its bilious intensity. One journalist, I remember, seemed to have an agenda against Mancini as well and produced a series of particularly nasty, sneering pieces. It was Mike Calvin of The Independent, then writing a column for the Sunday Mirror (I think). I remember being totally outraged. But he's written three boooks on football in the last few years and they're excellent and insightful. I bought the first based on reviews I'd seen but rather reluctantly; however, I'd now read any book he chose to publish. He still writes stuff about us now that make my hackles rise (not quite as vituperative), though he'll debate with you pleasantly and civilly enough on Twitter if you show those qualities when engaging him. (He thinks City fans are "thin-skinned" in terms of our attitude to criticism aimed at us post-takeover, as well.)

I thought Lawton, irrespective of anything else he's written, would be excellent on our team of the sixties and seventies. He was Malcolm Allison's ghostwriter, apart from anything else, so was very close to the action at Maine Road in those days and writes with genuine affection for that team. I bought the book on the strength of an assumption that this would be the case.

I guess what I'm saying is that if I think someone can produce stuff I'll find enriching, as both these guys have done with their books, I'm quite happy to set aside the fact that they wrote things that I didn't like, in a way that I didn't like, about City.

If you don't like Lawton's writing style, then that's fair enough. I know plenty of people who don't. But I do think it's a great fit for the book he's produced now, and I'm very glad I read it.
 
“It's a persons ego that leads them away. So I should say, let your mind be open to those things that affects your ego. Learn how to accept your mistakes and learn how to understand mistakes of others.”
Jayson Engay

Got it second hand for less than a tenner, too.
I'm pretty sure it should be 'effects' mate ;-)
 

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