Forget Recriminations, how do we sort this mess out?

[blueinsa]

Here lies the problem..................

Man for man we have the best squad in the league but we lack the mental strength and edge that other squads have and that needs sorting.

We're not playing as a team at the moment and i don't think the players are on board with what's expected of them..............it's a problem!

I'm not sure some people realise how important top 4 is this season?

It's vitally important for somebody.

It would appear that the reality of the situation has finally dawned!

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Just caught up with this thread, Dave.

We will never agree on Lescott and SWP.

Dropping Hart would be a mistake. He has to play through it.

Given is a bigger liability on crosses, our main Achilles heel at present.

We can sugar coat is all we want. Fact is, we don't have the right personel to arrest the slide to such an extent, that we won't be hanging on for dear life between now and May.

I have advocated support and patience for Roberto, but what I don't expect to hear from any City manager is that our training is poor.
I don't want lip service after the event, I want someone who can rectify the issues before they happen.

If training is at a low ebb, then not all the players have yet bought in.

Coupled with some below average performers, it is not just the players who need to take a look at themselves.

What's this, Tolm?

Mancini is directly quoted in most of the match reports today. Including broadsheets...


Mancini: "I didn't like the way we played but then we have not even worked well in training."


WTF - this is the biggest topic of concern for me. A manager who, for whatever reason, seems to concede we are not in it together.

 

[blueinsa]

What's this, Tolm?

Mancini is directly quoted in most of the match reports today. Including broadsheets...


Mancini: "I didn't like the way we played but then we have not even worked well in training."


WTF - this is the biggest topic of concern for me. A manager who, for whatever reason, seems to concede we are not in it together.

Backs up what we see out on the pitch for 90 mins as well.

We are not a unit, we are not a team and several players seem disinterested at times.

 

[mcfcliam]

What's this, Tolm?

Mancini is directly quoted in most of the match reports today. Including broadsheets...


Mancini: "I didn't like the way we played but then we have not even worked well in training."


WTF - this is the biggest topic of concern for me. A manager who, for whatever reason, seems to concede we are not in it together.

Not seen this, just got back from Birmingham.

That's really worrying...is he really saying that he isn't training the players hard enough to beat teams like Birmingham, who we should be beating?

We're 3rd yes, but there is real ground for concern here, I've never been a Mancini 'inner' or a Mancini 'outer' but quotes like this aren't really dragging me towards being an 'inner'.

I suppose the players aren't all innocent but it's Mancini and his staff who plan training.

Sort it out.

 

[buzzer1]

In late December I took a little time to re-evaluate what City were likely to do in the transfer market in Jan'

It was very easy to say we would buy 3,4,5 or 6 players and buy talent for each weakness.

But I fell down on the side of very little being done and posted as such.

I have the same feeling now, very little will change in terms of the board making changes (unless absolutely necessary), and by that I mean non-European qualification.

None of us know for sure the depth of the problems that Mancini has had to work amongst, but I know a little of why he was brought in and why he was never going to be moved aside for another manager last season or this.

If I were to be asked for a strategy to get City into the top 4 this season and/or next I would have to say it would mean Mancini stays and he gets another season as long as City play in Europe.

I suspect that the Board might be of the same opinion.

Strongly disagree. Our board hung onto Hughes for far too long and to make the same mistake again, throwing more money and time down the toilet, would be a disaster. Our "project" relies on momentum. Last season was a disappointment but another bad season would set us back badly.

My only concern is that the key decision makers do not know a lot about football and could have the wool pulled over their eyes.

But I don't believe it will come to that. We are way too good to not finish in the top 3 or 4.

Sorry Dave but we're not.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Mancini is directly quoted in most of the match reports today. Including broadsheets...


Mancini: "I didn't like the way we played but then we have not even worked well in training."


WTF - this is the biggest topic of concern for me. A manager who, for whatever reason, seems to concede we are not in it together.

WTF indeed?!?!?!? You know my opinion on the whole situation, I'm not even that surprised.

 

[Dax777]

how we can improve (long term)

1. defend properly from set pieces. people will say we have only conceded a few this season but recently we are conceding most games from set pieces. mancini needs to be less stubborn and scrap the zonal shite

The weird thing about zonal defending on set plays is this, when you concede a goal from it, there is often no one to blame. Consequently, the blame then falls to the coach or the system. However I can tell you this. I have been part of 2 college "soccer" (sorry friends across the pond) that is what we call it here :P) programs. And we have analyzed it every which way to hell. Over the long haul you concede fewer goals using the zonal system.

Yet every season, the same complaint from fans and even knowledgeable officials are the same. Why do you guys use this system that makes it easy to concede goals. And then we show them the stats. It is never even close. Zonal is so much better. Even when you first install it and players are getting used to it, you still concede less. But you have to show comparative stats to folks for them to believe you.

I have concluded that folks hate zonal marking on set plays because more often than not, when you do concede from it, there is no one to point at but yet you are angry and need to blame someone, so you blame the system that gave you no one to blame.

Now I don't know the stats for City pre and post zonal defending on set plays. But if I were to guess, I'd bet it is better now.

Besides, there is a wrinkle we added in our last season. We scout the opposition and man up on their 2 best headers and zone the rest. So it is a hybrid. I don't know if Mancini does this or not, but it seems he goes with a pure zone.

The key is practice. If you practice it enough, and run through all the situationals. You are bound to be better defensively on set pieces, than if you play man.

Simply put, man defense on set pieces are reactionary. And any team with a good crosser of the ball who practice their set plays a lot (i.e. lower level teams should do this ad nauseum) should be able to crack a man defense consistently.

Btw, I have noticed in general that Set pieces are quite poor in the PL.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Strongly disagree. Our board hung onto Hughes for far too long and to make the same mistake again, throwing more money and time down the toilet, would be a disaster. Our "project" relies on momentum. Last season was a disappointment but another bad season would set us back badly.

My only concern is that the key decision makers do not know a lot about football and could have the wool pulled over their eyes.

But I don't believe it will come to that. We are way too good to not finish in the top 3 or 4.

Sorry Dave but we're not.

Sorry, I'll rephrase. The players we have should be way too good to not finish in the top four.

 

[blueinsa]

Strongly disagree. Our board hung onto Hughes for far too long and to make the same mistake again, throwing more money and time down the toilet, would be a disaster. Our "project" relies on momentum. Last season was a disappointment but another bad season would set us back badly.

My only concern is that the key decision makers do not know a lot about football and could have the wool pulled over their eyes.

But I don't believe it will come to that. We are way too good to not finish in the top 3 or 4.

Sorry Dave but we're not.

I agree.

Too many see the names on the teamsheet and think, fuck me, what a side but the reality is they are not a top team and we are not as good as we think we are.

We are a collection of very talented players that we are relying on individual moments of magic rather than a collective, sustained team effort.

 

[schfc6]

Re: Roberto read this post by joemercers way

Mancini is one-dimensional, won't mix it up, won't work on two different formations that the players are familiar with.

4-3-3(4-5-1) is used just because it is safe, it is steady, but it isn't working. Other teams shouldn't be able to break through our midfield but they can. Going forward Silva and Tevez play between themselves, Dzeko already doesn't seem to fit. We have no pace, no depth and no alternatives. It's called squad rotation Mancini, that's what keeps players happy, but to do that you have to make sacrifices and also really work hard to make sure every player knows their role.

Our keeper has cost us game after game recently, and has probably cost us the title. Has to be dropped, should have been 3 weeks ago. Don't buy the "he's a young lad", he's dropped several bollocks and should be man enough to accept he deserves it and work harder to get back in. If Mancini has no faith in Given to replace him why keep him? Sell him and buy a replacement.

We have 1 very good CB(Kompany). Boateng looks good in that role so they should be the partnership, but Mancini decides to bring on the inconsistent Kolo instead of Zaba, and then again Vieira instead of Zaba in midfield yesterday, absolutely ridiculous. Kolo is for me on his last season of usefulness, Lescott should go, and we need another LB now Bridge has gone. 2 players for every position is a necessity.

We have no back-up Central midfielders WHATSOEVER, Mancini has failed on this. If De Jong, Barry or Yaya get injured it's Milner who's been frankly useless. Barry isn't good enough long term so we need at least 2 new centre midfielders, 1 ballwinner, 1 creative in the summer. Mancini refuses to use out and out wingers so we're 1 dimensional, we need 2 imo for flexibility, Mancini has to flexible, all the top managers will have a plan B, Mancini doesn't.

Up front he needs a formation to fit Tevez, Silva and Dzeko in and for them to work together. Balotelli, well nobody knows how he'll turn out and Mancini's stubborness means we've lost Adebayor, and Jo HAS to go, he has to. If Mancini doesn't get rid of him and Vieira I'm just going to lose all faith in him. So another striker.

Mancini needs to work on formations, tactics and set pieces. Zonal isn't working, players need to match up man for man so defenders can't pick who they get a run on, because otherwise guys like Bamba will pick the small lad and easily outjump him. De Jong and Zaba aren't tall enough for the posts.

COMMUNICATION-Kolo and Hart are all over the place and they DON'T communicate. They are always uncertain over who's ball it is and they are fucking up, and it can't go on. It's costing us points.

Mancini has let things go. After november that had to be our only blip, now we're in another one, and he's let problems carry on and now we're struggling. Ever since Blackpool I've been worrying because it's just looked unconfident, edgy and a distinct lack of concentration and awareness.

Not confident.

100 % correct.

Firstly we played a different formation last night, with Silva the head of a diamond and two up top.
433/451 isn't working? It's the formation used by top sides throughout Europe, we have played well in more games than not. we may be in a little blip, but we still sit 3rd with 3 of our next 4 games being Wigan, WBA and West Ham at home.

Our keeper has cost us a win against Blackburn and a win against Leicester in the cup. Replacing him with Given is a step backwards, young keepers make mistakes as do experienced ones, I've seen Reina, Cech and VDS all have made howlers this season.

Do you think perhaps Mancini brought on Viera based on his size, same with Toure? Birmingham had a 6'8" centre forward and were lumping diagonal ball on the full backs, how would Zaba cope with that? Two lads at 6" plus struggled. We have got the best defensive record in the Prem you know. Zonal and man to man are statistically proven to be similar, it's only been recent weeks where it has failed. Should United do away with man to man because they conceded 2 at Blackpool?

Viera has a role at the club, agreed not in the Prem but ask any pro at City and they love having him around and his influence and experience are something we can not buy. His influence on the progression of De Jong is there for all to see, he's gone from David Batty to one of if not the best defensive midfielder in the world.

I agree that we are light in midfield, but what is Mancini supposed to do? Go out and spunk money willy nilly? With no thought of strategy or positioning? Squad strengthening will take place once we're in the champions league, you can't squad rotate when players see playing in the lesser comps as a negative. We play in 1 top class competition so the players want to play in that, if we we're in 2 top class competitions players would be more comfortable with squad rotation. Sorry happy feet but wingers are a thing of the past, name me a good team that plays wingers?
Stop believing the media, we score goals and plenty of them, 4th highest scorers in the league, and I would guess may make up some goals on those sides above us with WH, Wigan and WBA our next 3 home games.

You have just picked up on every single negative, not put it into any context, and ramble on. Mancini has got rid of more than he's brought in, it's a building process, each player he brings in is an improvement, I'll reserve judgement on Milner. To build a squad capable of winning titles takes more than money, it takes time and lots of it. There's only a 1 league title and 5 teams disappointed if they don't win it. Rome was not built in a day nor a year. We have a side capable of beating anyone, we don't yet have a squad capable of competing in 3 tournaments without there being steps backwards and times of woe along the way.