Freedom of speech - edited

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Gelsons Dad said:
dazdon said:
I didn't see anything racist in the threads.

There were distasteful posts that could have upset offended a few people that only saw one view and one mindset, but in the main the posts were pretty restrained.

There were numerous posters explaining that they didn't agree with what Hamas were doing but were shocked at the response from the Israeli side because it was so disproportionate and those posters were explaining that UN schools and civilians shouldn't have been considered targets and the collateral damage was too severe for it to be warranted.

However (Let's call it the other side) were only interested in seeing it their own way and if you didn't see it their way which was/is that Israel is justified in bombing the Jesus out of Gaza indiscriminately then you are a terrorist sympathiser.

Even whispering the Jewish/Israeli lobby was enough to have the racist silencing tactic launched in your direction.

The same people who agree with Israels treament of the Palestinians are as one when it comes to eradicating the butchers of ISIS/IS with airstrikes without understanding how ISIS/IS came about and why they exist.

I have had the same conversations on here about UKIP and the EDL and some posters can't/wont differentiate between the two even after I have stated that the EDL are a bunch of thugs it wasn't good enough.....but in that discussion there were far more posters understanding that viewpoint without necessarily agreeing with it.

I'll agree at some point the mods have to make a decision on the commentary of the Israel situation, because that is what it had become it was happening and people were commenting on what was happening then in real time. But the decision to pull a thread seemed to be when the Pro-Israeli posters who were on the back foot constantly derailed threads.

Example.

UN school hit and 20 children killed.

Answer.

It's Hamas's fault they are killing their own people by default.

Which is a ridiculous answer isn't it?

The last thread that was pulled was about the Israel/jewish lobby myth when it's not a myth it's a reality.

But the Pro-Israelis (Not all of them) were only regurgitating the same pap that Mark Regev spouts in his propaganda reports.
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and he's off and running again :-)

Try re-reading that post with a completely open mind.
Click to expand...

To be fair, that's a bit rich coming from you GD.
 
The Flash said:
Gelsons Dad said:
dazdon said:
I didn't see anything racist in the threads.

There were distasteful posts that could have upset offended a few people that only saw one view and one mindset, but in the main the posts were pretty restrained.

There were numerous posters explaining that they didn't agree with what Hamas were doing but were shocked at the response from the Israeli side because it was so disproportionate and those posters were explaining that UN schools and civilians shouldn't have been considered targets and the collateral damage was too severe for it to be warranted.

However (Let's call it the other side) were only interested in seeing it their own way and if you didn't see it their way which was/is that Israel is justified in bombing the Jesus out of Gaza indiscriminately then you are a terrorist sympathiser.

Even whispering the Jewish/Israeli lobby was enough to have the racist silencing tactic launched in your direction.

The same people who agree with Israels treament of the Palestinians are as one when it comes to eradicating the butchers of ISIS/IS with airstrikes without understanding how ISIS/IS came about and why they exist.

I have had the same conversations on here about UKIP and the EDL and some posters can't/wont differentiate between the two even after I have stated that the EDL are a bunch of thugs it wasn't good enough.....but in that discussion there were far more posters understanding that viewpoint without necessarily agreeing with it.

I'll agree at some point the mods have to make a decision on the commentary of the Israel situation, because that is what it had become it was happening and people were commenting on what was happening then in real time. But the decision to pull a thread seemed to be when the Pro-Israeli posters who were on the back foot constantly derailed threads.

Example.

UN school hit and 20 children killed.

Answer.

It's Hamas's fault they are killing their own people by default.

Which is a ridiculous answer isn't it?

The last thread that was pulled was about the Israel/jewish lobby myth when it's not a myth it's a reality.

But the Pro-Israelis (Not all of them) were only regurgitating the same pap that Mark Regev spouts in his propaganda reports.
Click to expand...

and he's off and running again :-)

Try re-reading that post with a completely open mind.
Click to expand...

To be fair, that's a bit rich coming from you GD.
Click to expand...

You may be right. Would you mind asking him?
 
malg said:
Kirkstall Blue said:
Skashion has a strong valid point, why should the more enlightened bother contributing well researched posts for those of us that are reading the forum and want to learn something about current issues, only to see them removed. Perhaps the offending posts should be removed and the thread returned locked so that we can at least see what was written by the more informed amongst us.
Click to expand...
To be honest, no one should be reading any posts on here to learn something about current issues, as the posters will be putting their own slant on it. There are some relatively interesting discussions between certain posters on subjects, but far too often now those discussions degenerate into abuse (yesterday was a good example of threads descending into pages of abuse).
Click to expand...
That's why I suggested returning threads locked, otherwise we are admitting that those who ruin threads with personal abuse will continue to do so and the more polite and thoughtful posters may give up contributing.
Believe me I've learned an awful lot on here everyday ,had my eyes well and truly opened .
 
Kirkstall Blue said:
malg said:
Kirkstall Blue said:
Skashion has a strong valid point, why should the more enlightened bother contributing well researched posts for those of us that are reading the forum and want to learn something about current issues, only to see them removed. Perhaps the offending posts should be removed and the thread returned locked so that we can at least see what was written by the more informed amongst us.
Click to expand...
To be honest, no one should be reading any posts on here to learn something about current issues, as the posters will be putting their own slant on it. There are some relatively interesting discussions between certain posters on subjects, but far too often now those discussions degenerate into abuse (yesterday was a good example of threads descending into pages of abuse).
Click to expand...
That's why I suggested returning threads locked, otherwise we are admitting that those who ruin threads with personal abuse will continue to do so and the more polite and thoughtful posters may give up contributing.
Click to expand...
I already asked about this a week or so ago, don't think it's going to happen tbh.
 
dazdon said:
I didn't see anything racist in the threads.

There were distasteful posts that could have upset offended a few people that only saw one view and one mindset, but in the main the posts were pretty restrained.

There were numerous posters explaining that they didn't agree with what Hamas were doing but were shocked at the response from the Israeli side because it was so disproportionate and those posters were explaining that UN schools and civilians shouldn't have been considered targets and the collateral damage was too severe for it to be warranted.

However (Let's call it the other side) were only interested in seeing it their own way and if you didn't see it their way which was/is that Israel is justified in bombing the Jesus out of Gaza indiscriminately then you are a terrorist sympathiser.

Even whispering the Jewish/Israeli lobby was enough to have the racist silencing tactic launched in your direction.

The same people who agree with Israels treament of the Palestinians are as one when it comes to eradicating the butchers of ISIS/IS with airstrikes without understanding how ISIS/IS came about and why they exist.

I have had the same conversations on here about UKIP and the EDL and some posters can't/wont differentiate between the two even after I have stated that the EDL are a bunch of thugs it wasn't good enough.....but in that discussion there were far more posters understanding that viewpoint without necessarily agreeing with it.

I'll agree at some point the mods have to make a decision on the commentary of the Israel situation, because that is what it had become it was happening and people were commenting on what was happening then in real time. But the decision to pull a thread seemed to be when the Pro-Israeli posters who were on the back foot constantly derailed threads.

Example.

UN school hit and 20 children killed.

Answer.

It's Hamas's fault they are killing their own people by default.

Which is a ridiculous answer isn't it?

The last thread that was pulled was about the Israel/jewish lobby myth when it's not a myth it's a reality.

But the Pro-Israelis (Not all of them) were only regurgitating the same pap that Mark Regev spouts in his propaganda reports.
Click to expand...


The problem is that healthy debate wasn't being realised as much as you like to think it was. We ended up with 3 or 4 like minded people shouting down anyone who chose to air a different view, this ended up stifling the debate to such a point that people stopped posting (apart from the 3 or 4 like minded posters). Sort of ruins the idea of debate
 
Kirkstall Blue said:
Skashion has a strong valid point, why should the more enlightened bother contributing well researched posts for those of us that are reading the forum and want to learn something about current issues, only to see them removed. Perhaps the offending posts should be removed and the thread returned locked so that we can at least see what was written by the more informed amongst us.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more, I went from knowing nothing at all about the Israel/Gaza situation to having at least an understanding and wanting to learn more. The detailed posts including maps and basic history made the subject at least approachable. I would like to thank the posters who contributed especially Skashion for imparting their knowledge from both sides of the argument. I know the Cellar is fun but I really think it is a shame when a thread with so much information and passion is lost because a few couldn't keep within the CoC. The majority lose due to a minority. I wonder if the subject could be given one more chance?
 
kalouk said:
Kirkstall Blue said:
Skashion has a strong valid point, why should the more enlightened bother contributing well researched posts for those of us that are reading the forum and want to learn something about current issues, only to see them removed. Perhaps the offending posts should be removed and the thread returned locked so that we can at least see what was written by the more informed amongst us.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more, I went from knowing nothing at all about the Israel/Gaza situation to having at least an understanding and wanting to learn more. The detailed posts including maps and basic history made the subject at least approachable. I would like to thank the posters who contributed especially Skashion for imparting their knowledge from both sides of the argument. I know the Cellar is fun but I really think it is a shame when a thread with so much information and passion is lost because a few couldn't keep within the CoC. The majority lose due to a minority. I wonder if the subject could be given one more chance?
Click to expand...
Spot on
It's great reading some of the post on the subject of the Israel/Pàlestine conflict
Pretty sad that it's the main story in the news and it can't even be debated. . . . .surely if folk are going to far can they not just be removed from the thread but continue on the board?
 
Taking my mod hat off for a moment and talking as a poster, I agree with Skashion that it's very frustrating when you go to the trouble of typing a long, detailed, well-researched and thought out reply (and a witty one once) to find that the thread has been moved to the Mod Forum between starting your reply and pressing 'Submit'. It's also irritating when it gets lost to posterity. So I've every sympathy for his view.

Putting my mod hat on, it can be a complete pain in the arse and very time consuming to clean big threads up. It would also involve having to make value judgements on whose post is worthy of being kept, which opens us up to accusations of bias.

But it's a good point and I'll certainly take it on board.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Taking my mod hat off for a moment and talking as a poster, I agree with Skashion that it's very frustrating when you go to the trouble of typing a long, detailed, well-researched and thought out reply (and a witty one once) to find that the thread has been moved to the Mod Forum between starting your reply and pressing 'Submit'. It's also irritating when it gets lost to posterity. So I've every sympathy for his view.

Putting my mod hat on, it can be a complete pain in the arse and very time consuming to clean big threads up. It would also involve having to make value judgements on whose post is worthy of being kept, which opens us up to accusations of bias.

But it's a good point and I'll certainly take it on board.
Click to expand...
Just bully Damocles into doing it ;)
 
The threads get pulled when mods make tits of themselves. It's purely a face saving exercise, has nowt to do with the COC (at least as far as the Gaza threads are concerned).

1 Ducardo oversees the 'apologist' fiasco, thread gets pulled.

2 Shady plays the hard man (pm threats are issued), thread gets pulled.

3 PB has a one sherry to many, makes a deeply flawed post that contradicts every point he has ever made before on the subject, skash rightly rips him a new one, thread gets pulled.

Zohar Sharon could see what's going on!
 
You can debate any issue you want, including contentious issues like the Middle East, Religion, Politics

But the operative word here is debate, what tends to happen is that if anyone has an opinion that runs contrary to the current group think, they get rounded on, called names, insulted that's not debate.

There is such thing as "agree to differ" or just not responding

Believe it or not, we are all to some extent prisoners of our beliefs, and it's through those beliefs we see the world, so perhaps a bit of understanding would not go amiss as to why someone believes the things they do.
 
Ducado said:
You can debate any issue you want, including contentious issues like the Middle East, Religion, Politics

But the operative word here is debate, what tends to happen is that if anyone has an opinion that runs contrary to the current group think, they get rounded on, called names, insulted that's not debate.

There is such thing as "agree to differ" or just not responding

Believe it or not, we are all to some extent prisoners of our beliefs, and it's through those beliefs we see the world, so perhaps a bit of understanding would not go amiss as to why someone believes the things they do.
Click to expand...

Not if they're wrong though, surely ? ;.)
 
Suicide bomber one has now disappeared. I'd love to see the reasons why.
 
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