French Tunisian and Kuwait Terrorist attacks {merged}

[Damocles]

Correct. But this also means it is a fundamental problem within Islam and not the lone wolf odd bunch of nutters problem that it is frequently portrayed as by some.

It's not a problem within Islam per se, it was a historical and social problem in which people felt that their culture was being eroded by Western Christian liberalism and were being continuously invaded/divided by those countries for the purposes of resources or greater tactical positions. The Islamic fascists attempted to galvanise this by focusing on a very specific time in Arab history and claimed the liberalism of Islam was at fault for all of the other problems.

I'll try to explain the exact same point in a way you might find more palatable. This is literally the same point with the names changed around.

It is not the fault of the British Conservatives that the BNP exist, despite the BNP claiming a cherry picked and extreme version of the British Conservative agenda as their own. The BNP exist because of reasons stemming from cultural disenfranchisement and plain hatred/racism, the fact that they use an extreme version of the Conservative agenda will certainly not hurt their recruitment odds amongst Conservatives who are moving more to the right wing but it is not the cause of it an more than socialism was the cause of the Nazi Party nor communism was the cause of the Soviet Union under Stalin

Now the BNP might be Conservatives, but it isn't the fault of David Cameron that they exist nor should we be looking to control the Conservative agenda to ensure that it does not grow. Most Conservatives are hard working people whose politics has little to do with their every day life and just want to live in a peaceful world. Just because the BNP don't preach this doesn't mean that it is an innate flaw in a Conservative way of thinking.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

It's not a problem within Islam per se, it was a historical and social problem in which people felt that their culture was being eroded by Western Christian liberalism and were being continuously invaded/divided by those countries for the purposes of resources or greater tactical positions. The Islamic fascists attempted to galvanise this by focusing on a very specific time in Arab history and claimed the liberalism of Islam was at fault for all of the other problems.

I'll try to explain the exact same point in a way you might find more palatable. This is literally the same point with the names changed around.

It is not the fault of the British Conservatives that the BNP exist, despite the BNP claiming a cherry picked and extreme version of the British Conservative agenda as their own. The BNP exist because of reasons stemming from cultural disenfranchisement and plain hatred/racism, the fact that they use an extreme version of the Conservative agenda will certainly not hurt their recruitment odds amongst Conservatives who are moving more to the right wing but it is not the cause of it an more than socialism was the cause of the Nazi Party nor communism was the cause of the Soviet Union under Stalin

Now the BNP might be Conservatives, but it isn't the fault of David Cameron that they exist nor should we be looking to control the Conservative agenda to ensure that it does not grow. Most Conservatives are hard working people whose politics has little to do with their every day life and just want to live in a peaceful world. Just because the BNP don't preach this doesn't mean that it is an innate flaw in a Conservative way of thinking.

I fundamentally disagree with this analogy. Unfortunately I'm busy at work so will have to get back to it later.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Do you remember this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_massacre
62 people, mostly foreign tourists, were killed in Egypt by Islamist gunmen.

This was in 1997, before 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan and before the 2nd Palestinian Intifada. In fact, it was soon after the Oslo Accords so the Israel/Palestine peace process was actually in a relatively good state with hope on both sides.

Blaming US "imperialist wars" or the Israel / Palestine situation for the actions of ISIS and other Jihadist groups is basically just wrong. They do what they do because they want to impose their way of life on all "Muslim lands" and because they want to kill infidels. Simple as that.

Do you remember the 1920 aerial carpet bombing of Iraq as a way to put down the Iraqi revolt. Britain must have killed 5.000 to 10.000 people then, no idea why they would mistrust us as they were wanting to govern their own lives.
Nice to see the Mustard gas worked and the delay bombs worked particularly well against children.

Still Bomber Harris and the lads had some laughs eh!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Do you remember the 1920 aerial carpet bombing of Iraq as a way to put down the Iraqi revolt. Britain must have killed 5.000 to 10.000 people then, no idea why they would mistrust us as they were wanting to govern their own lives.
Nice to see the Mustard gas worked and the delay bombs worked particularly well against children.

Still Bomber Harris and the lads had some laughs eh!

That's a complete non-sequitur to the point made plus there is absolutely no evidence that gas was used. There were no supplies of mustard gas but limited supplies of tear gas available in the region. A bit like Saddam Hussein's mythical WMD 75 years later in fact.

Damocles said that the fall of the Ottoman empire was a factor in the rise of Islamic militancy however and he's right I suspect, as that led to the carving up of the Middle East in a fairly arbitrary way. The Iraqi tribes were revolting against the prospect that they might become part of the British Empire.

Interestingly it was one of the few times that the Iraqi Sunni and Shia groups worked together. After the revolt had been crushed they went back to killing each other.

You might also remember we bombed the fuck out of Germany 70 years ago and dropped a couple of atomic weapons on Japan as well. They've had no problem coming to terms with us since that.

 

[Blue Maverick]

So how do we fight them, if we go on a ground war we would probably crush them however as the end neared they'd just fade away and pop up again, would they not? So do we let them have a caphilate that stretches across North Africa and basically put up a shield and not allow them anywhere near us, don't trade etc? Only problem is the oil, when isn't it! So apart from special forces taking out the leaders at great risk what do we do?

 

[Tom_mcfc]

I fundamentally disagree with this analogy. Unfortunately I'm busy at work so will have to get back to it later.

I disagree also, but for the main reason it being bollocks

 

[yorknomore]

So do we let them have a caphilate that stretches across North Africa and basically put up a shield and not allow them anywhere near us

My very basic understanding of the situation is that this bunch of crackpots want ALL the world to be under the control of the caliphate and you can be sure when that happens there will be another faction appear who want to bomb and kill the controllers of the caliphate that is in situ. In short we can either wait for it to blow itself out which I honestly don't believe will happen in our lifetimes or we can as you say put up a shield to prevent them entry.

But the real problem is 'Who are them?'

 

[warspite]

Do you remember the 1920 aerial carpet bombing of Iraq as a way to put down the Iraqi revolt. Britain must have killed 5.000 to 10.000 people then, no idea why they would mistrust us as they were wanting to govern their own lives.
Nice to see the Mustard gas worked and the delay bombs worked particularly well against children.

Still Bomber Harris and the lads had some laughs eh!

I'm sure that as the Tunisian gunman was pumping british tourists full of bullets as they lay on their sun loungers was thinking to himself ''take that you imperialist western dogs, that will teach bomber harris and the lads for laughing in 1920

 

[GresleyChris]

Big training exercise today in London preparing for a "Tunisian style" attack. Does anyone else feel an attack on these shores is imminent?

Maybe just coincidence that it'll be 10 years since 7/7 but something doesn't feel right about an exercise in that scale, does our security service know something we don't??

 

[Rascal]

Big training exercise today in London preparing for a "Tunisian style" attack. Does anyone else feel an attack on these shores is imminent?

Maybe just coincidence that it'll be 10 years since 7/7 but something doesn't feel right about an exercise in that scale, does our security service know something we don't??

Hasnt an attack been imminent since the threat level thingy was first introduced?

Governments like scared populations. Easier to pass crackpot laws.