Friedrich Engels statue

jimharri said:
No; not recently, but I am aware of it. Basically a catalogue of atrocities carried out by various communist/marxist states. Now, Engels was the driving force behind Marxism (with Marx, obviously). If I remember my history lessons from the stone ages, didn't he spend time in sunny Manchester (google would probably tell me, but that's the lazy way out). Engels was no angel, but it's a stretch to mention him in the same breath as Hitler. What I do agree with you though is that communism, in it's most extreme form, was just as bad as fascism. Both ideologies (again, in their extreme forms) were/are failures.
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Ok maybe it's a little extreme roping him in with Adolf..yet both their ideologies resulted in the murder of millions..I certainly don't want a statue of him in this city
 
IanBishopsHaircut said:
Ok maybe it's a little extreme roping him in with Adolf..yet both their ideologies resulted in the murder of millions..I certainly don't want a statue of him in this city
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That was what I was getting at. I wasn't having a go at your opinion of him. I'd agree with you, that he wouldn't be on a dinner guest list of mine.
 
A capitalist mill owner who lived 20 yrs in Mamchester, fell in love with a local lass and documented the discracefull conditions of the working class.

He also philosiphised with Marx and joint wrote ideas of how the world would be a better place, dying 22 years before the russian revolution and first communist state and 27 years beofre a pyschotic despot came to power in that same country and abandoned the whole concept of egalitarianism for a dictatorship of extremist ideology far removed from what engels wrote about. comparing him to hitler is ridiculous.

Why not just say you don't like communism and object to the statue, I am sure others do too, but it's part of Mancunian history as are all the statues up in town.

The only Dictator whose statue we have in Manchester is Cromwells, and let's not mention how many people died under vickies empire.
 
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Indirectly is key, and it's not as if 'Capitalism' hasn't killed people. Chomsky wrote 'Overcoming amnesia, suppose we now apply the methodology of the Black Book and its reviewers to the full story, not just the doctrinally acceptable half. We therefore conclude that in India the democratic capitalist "experiment" since 1947 has caused more deaths than in the entire history of the "colossal, wholly failed...experiment" of Communism everywhere since 1917: over 100 million deaths by 1979, tens of millions more since, in India alone.'
 
jimharri said:
No; not recently, but I am aware of it. Basically a catalogue of atrocities carried out by various communist/marxist states. Now, Engels was the driving force behind Marxism (with Marx, obviously). If I remember my history lessons from the stone ages, didn't he spend time in sunny Manchester (google would probably tell me, but that's the lazy way out). Engels was no angel, but it's a stretch to mention him in the same breath as Hitler. What I do agree with you though is that communism, in it's most extreme form, was just as bad as fascism. Both ideologies (again, in their extreme forms) were/are failures.
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IIRC he wrote a big chunk of it in the Economics building on Dover Street.
 
On paper Communism is a perfect ideology , unfortunately it doesn't take human nature Into account & soon some become more equal than others .
 
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