Full Backs?

[Ruzzles]

Jeremy Toljan.

Can play on either side good shout.

 

[Trautmann's Chiropractor]

Does anyone reckon we'll actually go in for a second right back now? I know the media briefings have been 4 full backs, but with our perfect option in Alves now a no-go it means spending more money on a player who wouldn't bring half of what Alves would've brought.

We have a few options at RB already here that may be trusted for back up duties. Obviously they may not be the best selection, but players like Fernandinho, Maffeo (who hasn't officially left on loan yet I'm sure) and Denayer could be used to give Walker a rest. That allows Pep to still use leftover funds for the centre half he's targeting.

It'll be interesting to see who he uses in the friendlies.

 

[Neville Kneville]

So our original plan was to have Alves for a year or two as a back up RB to Walker while Pablo Maffeo was at Girona. He'd probably have played 15-20 games at most. We aren't going to spend €40-50m on Semedo to play 20 games a season, and players like that won't be hugely interested in coming to us over a team like Barcelona who need a first choice RB to play every single game.

Now IMO we have three options for a back up -

1- Sign another old player who doesn't mind being back up because they're old.

2- Sign an average player who doesn't mind being back up because they obviously aren't good enough to start.

3- Sign a very young player who doesn't mind being back up because they're young.

The first 2 make no sense to me, 1 - why do we want another old player? We were only interested in Alves because it was Alves, the perfect Pep fullback and serial winner, no other old player is going to be that. 2 - Why do we want second rate players? Those days should be gone.

So the direction to go in is #3, and we already have the solution for that, Maffeo. Just bring him in a year early. He's got the experience in big games Pep said he needed youth players to have, 28 games for Girona now and 2 promotion fights, he's always impressed when played here and he's at the club, he's free, he's already worked with Pep for a year. He's even fucking HG so we can buy another foreign player, or at least have the flexibility to if Bertrand falls through for example, or we can't offload Kolarov to get the new CB in.

This is doubly the case if Sam Lee was told correctly that City don't have room in their budget to buy a CB now that we have to pay for another RB.

I'd go so far as to say every other club in the world, every club we're trying to emulate especially, would use Maffeo in this situation, but of course we probably won't.

This is because we are two, three years behind where we should be, with young players.

We should have several who have been tested out, who can come in, at a pinch & cover the position. If none were good enough, we should have found ones who are & tested them out, so we have young homegrown backup. It doesn't matter if they are then sold, & replaced with another kid. They should still be there, as first team squad backup.

This goes for pretty much every position.

 

[blue61]

For me we should get Walker and backfill with Maffeo and Fernandinho.

 

[Marvin]

This is because we are two, three years behind where we should be, with young players.

We should have several who have been tested out, who can come in, at a pinch & cover the position. If none were good enough, we should have found ones who are & tested them out, so we have young homegrown backup. It doesn't matter if they are then sold, & replaced with another kid. They should still be there, as first team squad backup.

This goes for pretty much every position.

Takeover is almost 10 years old. Systems should be well in place by now.

 

[Neville Kneville]

If we are going to splash out, the best fullback at the Confed Cup, by a country mile imo, was the geezer from Southampton, who also already has an excellent understanding with Bernardo Silva.

 

[domalino]

This is because we are two, three years behind where we should be, with young players.

We should have several who have been tested out, who can come in, at a pinch & cover the position. If none were good enough, we should have found ones who are & tested them out, so we have young homegrown backup. It doesn't matter if they are then sold, & replaced with another kid. They should still be there, as first team squad backup.

This goes for pretty much every position.

But we're not in this case, we're in a position where Maffeo would be fine, it's not too late. He's got experience abroad, now he could be playing in preseason and then in the cup games before the turn of the year, while being fed into the league slowly.

Then by the turn of the year, even if Walker got injured we'd trust Maffeo in 90% of games.

At some point, someone just needs to take a leap of faith with these kids, and this situation is absolutely perfect for it.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Takeover is almost 10 years old. Systems should be well in place by now.

Imo Marwood etc have done an absolutely fantastic job setting up the academy only for successive managers to use the kids purely as cannon fodder.

Too early yet to see if Pep is following on the same.

 

[Neville Kneville]

But we're not in this case, we're in a position where Maffeo would be fine, it's not too late. He's got experience abroad, now he could be playing in preseason and then in the cup games before the turn of the year, while being fed into the league slowly.

Then by the turn of the year, even if Walker got injured we'd trust Maffeo in 90% of games.

I think Maffeo would probably be fine, but we have very little evidence to go on. Both the Pelle & Guardiola, could have got much more minutes out of him, but chose not to.

 

[domalino]

I think Maffeo would probably be fine, but we have very little evidence to go on. Both the Pelle & Guardiola, could have got much more minutes out of him, but chose not to.

Well he wasn't in the training photos/video yesterday so I assume he's already on his way to Girona with Garcia and anyone else who could have played in the first team this year.

 

[Marvin]

Imo Marwood etc have done an absolutely fantastic job setting up the academy only for successive managers to use the kids purely as cannon fodder.

Too early yet to see if Pep is following on the same.

Guardiola made some remarks about there being a huge gap between the academy and the first team which makes it difficult for him to transition players into the first team. That made immediate sense to me. And I thought it was quite good that he was honest about this problem. However you can still see as a Football Director the ages of your first team squad. Three of four years ago you should be planning ahead and bringing young players in, and then at 18 or so getting them a loan etc all for these moments in mind

And if the players aren't there then you have your scouts working on every single prospect and you find out their circumstances, and before the transfer window you sit down with everyone and go through it all with every contingency covered. Perhaps we have all this in place, but I doubt it. The fact that we went for Alves in the first place suggested to me that there was no back up for Walker.

 

[Jonsilfab]

Well he wasn't in the training photos/video yesterday so I assume he's already on his way to Girona with Garcia and anyone else who could have played in the first team this year.

I though I saw Aleix in the first day video as the players were making their way to the training pitch. He was talking to Agüero.

 

[domalino]

I though I saw Aleix in the first day video as the players were making their way to the training pitch. He was talking to Agüero.

Aleix was there, but he's going to be in Girona, it's only a matter of time. Maffeo wasn't there at all.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Guardiola made some remarks about there being a huge gap between the academy and the first team which makes it difficult for him to transition players into the first team. That made immediate sense to me. And I thought it was quite good that he was honest about this problem. However you can still see as a Football Director the ages of your first team squad. Three of four years ago you should be planning ahead and bringing young players in, and then at 18 or so getting them a loan etc all for these moments in mind

And if the players aren't there then you have your scouts working on every single prospect and you find out their circumstances, and before the transfer window you sit down with everyone and go through it all with every contingency covered. Perhaps we have all this in place, but I doubt it. The fact that we went for Alves in the first place suggested to me that there was no back up for Walker.

Yes but the players Guardiola has are mostly youth team players.

The older ones who should be first team squad candidates, were all left to rot in the EDS, then loaned out as teir careers started to go backwards.

Over in ragland, most of them would have played some kind of role in the first team & one or two would probably have become squad players, ahead of the next batch.

Imo if Denayer was the fresh, fast, fit, brilliant talent who came back from Celtic, rather than the disgruntled, wheezing, plodder we see now, he could easily fill a cb & rb job.

 

[domalino]

Guardiola made some remarks about there being a huge gap between the academy and the first team which makes it difficult for him to transition players into the first team. That made immediate sense to me. And I thought it was quite good that he was honest about this problem. However you can still see as a Football Director the ages of your first team squad. Three of four years ago you should be planning ahead and bringing young players in, and then at 18 or so getting them a loan etc all for these moments in mind

And if the players aren't there then you have your scouts working on every single prospect and you find out their circumstances, and before the transfer window you sit down with everyone and go through it all with every contingency covered. Perhaps we have all this in place, but I doubt it. The fact that we went for Alves in the first place suggested to me that there was no back up for Walker.

Guardiola's remarks made sense at first but if you actually look at them they don't hold up.

He says that players like Maffeo needed experience in somewhere like Segunda divison, like his Barca B kids, so he could trust them.

But if that's the case why did he keep Angelino and Maffeo at the club until January? Why did Garcia hang around to play about an hour of football all year?

And now, Maffeo has played in 2 seasons for Girona, got them promoted, played 30 odd games and it's still not enough to get a chance.

So it seems he needs our players to have 3+ seasons of first team football before trusting them, which is an impossible benchmark.

 

[bugsyblue]

Yes but the players Guardiola has are mostly youth team players.

The older ones who should be first team squad candidates, were all left to rot in the EDS, then loaned out as teir careers started to go backwards.

Over in ragland, most of them would have played some kind of role in the first team & one or two would probably have become squad players, ahead of the next batch.

Imo if Denayer was the fresh, fast, fit, brilliant talent who came back from Celtic, rather than the disgruntled, wheezing, plodder we see now, he could easily fill a cb & rb job.

Denayer was the most ridiculous thing ever. Went on loan, proved himself, won young player of the year, comes back here and we renew a 60 year olds contract. Madness.

 

[domalino]

Denayer was the most ridiculous thing ever. Went on loan, proved himself, won young player of the year, comes back here and we renew a 60 year olds contract. Madness.

Demichelis' contract was renewed in February. Denayer returned in July.

 

[Dobsy]

Demichelis' contract was renewed in February. Denayer returned in July.

I still agree with the broader point though. If excelling in Scotland isn't going to be considered a good enough benchmark to be a squad player so be it; but then don't loan players to clubs in that division.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Denayer was the most ridiculous thing ever. Went on loan, proved himself, won young player of the year, comes back here and we renew a 60 year olds contract. Madness.

We are now seeing one kind of example, of why it's bad for the club.

I've been saying it for years & it keeps being proven over & over again. It doesn't matter if these kids don't actually make it to the very top, so long as they fill a situation at the club when needed.

One or two, will surprise everyone & go up a level, thus opening a place for transfers, saving a run when hit by injuries, etc etc etc.

Money should not always be the answer.

 

[Marvin]

Guardiola's remarks made sense at first but if you actually look at them they don't hold up.

He says that players like Maffeo needed experience in somewhere like Segunda divison, like his Barca B kids, so he could trust them.

But if that's the case why did he keep Angelino and Maffeo at the club until January? Why did Garcia hang around to play about an hour of football all year?

And now, Maffeo has played in 2 seasons for Girona, got them promoted, played 30 odd games and it's still not enough to get a chance.

So it seems he needs our players to have 3+ seasons of first team football before trusting them, which is an impossible benchmark.

I think Girona is potentially a very valuable asset for City. It's a tremendous opportunity for young City players to play at a very good level. I don't know the answers to your questions. There were times in games last season where I would have brought young players on.

Even if there is a problem with the structure of English football, there must be workarounds, and the City Football Group is ideal, or use the loan system. That worked many yeaers ago for Jermain Defoe. I remember he went out on loan, possibly to Bournemouth, and scored about 10 goals in 10 games as a kid.

Disappointing that the adademy hasn't produced full backs for us. Or maybe they have and we don't know it. And the other issue is Txiki and Guardiola should know well in advance what our options are when we release all these full backs and have loads of options worked out. If I had decided that Kyle Walker was my No. 1 senior target I'd have made certain that at the same time I secured a young alternative and I'd have gone through the list until I had him

We dom't seem to be doing the obvious things.