Funny stats to upset United fans

johnnytapia said:
Club Elo? Never heard of it (and would wager 99% of fans haven’t either).
I’m always slightly wary of such algorithms- and it would be interesting to see where it ranks teams / managers / players who played in the pre-European Cup era.
I can only go off my own thoughts, instinct and games I’ve seen.
Where does Clough rank on its system, a man that took a team from Div 2 to European Champions.
Ferguson spent shedloads, absolutely. He also won, sadly, shedloads. And he did it North of the border too, where the Old Firm won /,win virtually everything.
By the way, is Alan Ball on Club Elo?
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ELO ratings are used in a wide variety of sports, as they are a good indicator of relative (punching above your weight) strengths, not just the 'Biggest'
en.wikipedia.org

Elo rating system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

http://clubelo.com/Coaches is the current (all time) ranking of coaches.
As per the 1st sentence, it also shows coaches who aren't as good as they are supposed to have been. (ie battered others who were a lot poorer)..if i can draw your eye to number 28
1704279671508.png

Alan Ball, isn't in the top 500.

For clubs:
1704280151144.png
Come on Girona! (and whomever is close below them!)
 
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johnnytapia said:
Club Elo? Never heard of it (and would wager 99% of fans haven’t either).
I’m always slightly wary of such algorithms- and it would be interesting to see where it ranks teams / managers / players who played in the pre-European Cup era.
I can only go off my own thoughts, instinct and games I’ve seen.
Where does Clough rank on its system, a man that took a team from Div 2 to European Champions.
Ferguson spent shedloads, absolutely. He also won, sadly, shedloads. And he did it North of the border too, where the Old Firm won /,win virtually everything.
By the way, is Alan Ball on Club Elo?
Click to expand...
Yeah much as it pains me to admit it, Ferguson was a phenomenal manager and broke the duopoly north of the border as well as bringing European silverware to Aberdeen.

I've written at length in the records thread, but Ferguson did underachieve in Europe. Two managers from us and the Red cheeks stand out, Bob Paisley and our Pep.

Clough certainly deserves to be mentioned in the best managers argument.

As an aside, when did the gate money stop being shared? Did it accelerate the gulf in resources between the istree boys and the rest?

What's not in doubt is that the PL was set up to maximise revenue, especially for the original big 5, united, Liverpool, arsenal, Everton and spurs.

This along with their stock flotation, propelled united into the financial stratosphere with Ferguson able to take full advantage.
 
Aba452 said:
As an aside, when did the gate money stop being shared? Did it accelerate the gulf in resources between the istree boys and the rest?
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It was very early 80's, 1981 or 1982, and absolutely it accelerated the gulf. You can see that by looking at who won the title from 1982 onwards, compared to the variety of clubs who'd won it before.

Before 1982, a good manager (Shankly, Paisley, Busby, Mercer, Clough, etc) would make a significant difference.

After that, it was largely about money making the difference. United, Arsenal, Liverpool & Everton mainly, with Leeds, Blackburn and Leicester the only outliers (us and Chelsea having had huge investment).
 
KS55 said:
Absolutely true. As a kid I went alternately to Maine Rd and the swamp. Common in those days, especially if you were relying on other boys dads.
Hated the swamp even then.
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I also used to attend both venues in the mid to late 1950's as I had to tag along with my elder brother. He used to delight in telling everyone (he's a rag) that I used to go to the swamp but he has strangely gone quiet over the last 15 years ! Indeed, he has attended more City games with me than he has ever been to the swamp !!
 
The thing with Clough and Ferguson is that they had poor periods in their careers. Ferguson finished 13th (!!!) in 89/90. What saved him back then was the FA Cup. To finish 13th in the league after 4 years of managing United (and not in his 1st or 2nd season which would be sort of understandable) was terrible. No doubt he was a great manager, but his success with Aberdeen is slightly overstated, as, iirc, Aberdeen finished 2nd before he took over. It's not like they were 5th or something.
 
alexmcity said:
The thing with Clough and Ferguson is that they had poor periods in their careers. Ferguson finished 13th (!!!) in 89/90. What saved him back then was the FA Cup. To finish 13th in the league after 4 years of managing United (and not in his 1st or 2nd season which would be sort of understandable) was terrible. No doubt he was a great manager, but his success with Aberdeen is slightly overstated, as, iirc, Aberdeen finished 2nd before he took over. It's not like they were 5th or something.
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They were runners-up and they reached a Scottish Cup final in the year before Ferguson took over also. Feats achieved under Billy McNeil, who left them to revive 5th place Celtic.

It was McNeil who signed Gordon Strachan and Steve Archibald. So Ferguson inherited his best midfielder and striker.

In fairness to Ferguson, he took the gifts he was given and made the most of them but this image of himas a footballing pirate, terrifying the establishment starts to look iffy when one scratches the surface.

I'd be interested to know how much Ferguson added to the squad McNeil left behind (and at what cost). Can't find any info on tinterweb at the minute though.
 
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