Gary Neville

nijinskybell said:
Pigeonho said:
Some players would go down, some wouldn't.

Some managers actively encourage it, some don't.
Precisely, and if Aguero had gone down because Mancini actively encouraged his players to do so, and we won the league with a last minute penalty, no one would care. It's part of football, always has been and always will be.
 
Pigeonho said:
nijinskybell said:
Pigeonho said:
Some players would go down, some wouldn't.

Some managers actively encourage it, some don't.
Precisely, and if Aguero had gone down because Mancini actively encouraged his players to do so, and we won the league with a last minute penalty, no one would care. It's part of football, always has been and always will be.
There isn't a worse example in football that you could have used to illustrate your point than Sergio Aguero.

NWACFWS
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Pigeonho said:
nijinskybell said:
Some managers actively encourage it, some don't.
Precisely, and if Aguero had gone down because Mancini actively encouraged his players to do so, and we won the league with a last minute penalty, no one would care. It's part of football, always has been and always will be.
There isn't a worse example in football that you could have made to illustrate your point than Sergio Aguero.
Read what I said. Aguero has (rightly) been applauded for staying on his feet when many would have, (rightly or wrongly, given what was at stake), gone down. I used the scenario as an example, not the player. Change it to any England player then in the last minute of the world cup final in Brazil. He goes down and we subsequently win it via that penalty. No-one would care.
 
I think a lot of people would care if the replay had shown he went down easy. Rather than viewing it as a miracle, it would be tainted. The scandal would have drowned out all enjoyment for me. There would be an unofficial asterisk by that title forever.
 
Blue Haze said:
I think a lot of people would care. Rather than viewing it as a miracle, it would be tainted. No one would have given us any consideration for winning it that way. The fallout over the cheating would have been greater than the glory of winning the league. The scandal would have drowned out all enjoyment for me. There would be an unofficial asterisk by that title forever.
Depends how you look at it. A dive in a random game mid-season which gains 3 points has a contribution to a title win that season, would they be unofficial asterisks too?<br /><br />-- Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:38 am --<br /><br />
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Pigeonho said:
nijinskybell said:
Some managers actively encourage it, some don't.
Precisely, and if Aguero had gone down because Mancini actively encouraged his players to do so, and we won the league with a last minute penalty, no one would care. It's part of football, always has been and always will be.
There isn't a worse example in football that you could have used to illustrate your point than Sergio Aguero.

NWACFWS
??
 
Jordie said:
The mask of the usually impeccable and fair-minded Gary Neville slipped on Sky Sports’ Payback Sunday yesterday when discussing his former side’s capitulation to Spurs with Jamie Redknapp. His words gave key insight into the win-at-all-costs mentality that has served the Red Devils so well.

Yet what cost does that mentality have for the integrity of the modern game?

Clint Dempsey’s late equaliser in front of the White Hart Lane faithful warmed up the watching British public on the wintriest of weekends and left Alex Ferguson clutching his watch for non-existent “Fergie-time.” The deflected criticism of the linesman who turned down Wayne Rooney’s penalty appeals made sure media attention was taken away from his team dropping two points in the title race to rivals and current champions Man City.

Yet more revealing was his former acolyte Neville’s comments when discussing American Clint Dempsey, who dared to stay on his feet and attempt to score instead of keeling over for a penalty after a first-half Evra challenge.

Neville says Dempsey should have gone down after the soft challenge and co-presenter Jamie Redknapp replies in amazement: "Why on earth would you want to go down? You are going clean through there—he is a goal scorer, why would he want to go down? I think you have got to look at that as an opportunity."

In the immediate wake of the Lance Armstrong mass cheating scandal and Luis Suarez’s admission of diving last week, such a comment is very revealing of the mentality possessed by one of the former cornerstones of Sir Alex Ferguson’s Premier League dynasty.

Neville, of course, is a highly decorated former youth product of Manchester United, so was firmly indoctrinated in their "winning" ways.


Ashley Youngs 'Wins' A Penalty & Gets Shaun Derry Sent Off


Recall the Ashley Young diving scandal towards the end of last season (2011/12) when the new £9M signing, who had "won" the most penalties of any Premier League player over the last two seasons, was heavily criticised by fellow players. Fellow professional footballer Ryan Taylor of Newcastle United was outraged so much at a Young dive versus Aston Villa, he blurted out on Twitter, "Ashley Young is an absolute DISGRACE. He’s the biggest cheat in the league. His antics are a joke."

Just a week later, Young dived again blatantly against QPR when challenged by Shaun Derry, who was subsequently sent off, effectively ending the game. Is it too much a flight of fancy to consider the possibility that diving is part and parcel of the "winning" culture at Old Trafford and those willing to flout the rules and gain advantage by any means necessary are bought for such a purpose?

Yet, thankfully, cheats didn’t prosper on this occasion as Manchester City went on to win the title and Dempsey’s fair actions yesterday may have “earned him the later goal” according to Neville.

In a modern world in which technology is so prevalent, it is high time that any form of diving and gamesmanship is outlawed. Stoke manager Tony Pulis has championed the cause of bringing into the game retrospective action against "simulation" whereby if a player is judged to have dived after the match, he would be subject to a lengthy ban of three, four or five matches.

Until the rules are changed, perhaps as Pulis suggests by the introduction of a panel meeting on a Monday to judge the weekend's incidents, the existing minority culture in the game to gain advantage by any means necessary may continue unchecked.

With time, there will be changes to the rules and technology will play a greater role in the game, just as the introduction of floodlights and the back-pass rule, for example, have helped take the sport to the next level in the past. Fortunately, like the outraged Jamie Redknapp and Ryan Taylor and Clint Dempsey himself, the vast majority of pros and ex-pros clearly do play in a spirit of sportsmanship.

Yet perhaps tellingly, like the advantage gained by the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind, those who clearly do not figure heavily among the most successful



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Its not the first time he's said that sort of thing.

I was watching him on Sky a few weeks ago after a similar incident involving a United player, can't remember who, or the game.
Again he preached about the 'win at all costs' game and was really annimated. Obviously it's how the Rags are educated to play.............. Now, playing to the last seconds of a game and coming at you like at train I can accept, but we all know they employ every trick in the book to influence a game, now we have had it confirmed, not once but twice...............!!
 
Pigeonho said:
Blue Haze said:
I think a lot of people would care. Rather than viewing it as a miracle, it would be tainted. No one would have given us any consideration for winning it that way. The fallout over the cheating would have been greater than the glory of winning the league. The scandal would have drowned out all enjoyment for me. There would be an unofficial asterisk by that title forever.
Depends how you look at it. A dive in a random game mid-season which gains 3 points has a contribution to a title win that season, would they be unofficial asterisks too?

No, I guess that's the problem with people. Cause and effect gets muddied over distances in time, and memories are short. Problem is, when it's literally the last play of the season, cause and effect are undeniable. It would be too obvious to dispute.

The feeling of gutting the rags with one kick of the ball is infinitely more pleasing than an endless debate about whether Aguero went diving for a medal. Can only speak for myself in that regard, maybe others feel differently.

In my opinion, just have replay or do retroactive bans. Replay revolutionized American sports to where officials went from hated and controversial to heroes.
 
totally agree we should win without cheating because :

its pisses off and it winds the agenda people

(Who ever they are these days? MU Sky BBC Refs South Asian Betting rings that women who gets on the 40 buses outside MMU and goes on about irag, a lot of blue moan posters )

because were are better
 
Pigeonho said:
nijinskybell said:
Pigeonho said:
Some players would go down, some wouldn't.

Some managers actively encourage it, some don't.
Precisely, and if Aguero had gone down because Mancini actively encouraged his players to do so, and we won the league with a last minute penalty, no one would care. It's part of football, always has been and always will be.

I would care. I want to win things without cheating.
 

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