General Election June 8th

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

More worryingly is the fact that skilled production jobs were moved abroad probably because it was cheaper to produce there ( India? ) and probably due to the UK skills shortage - you know all those apprenticeships that were binned in the 1980's under Thatcher.

You've got to be kidding me.
In the late eighties under Thatcher these are the apprenticeships that i know were around.
GEC Trafford Park - approx 20 technician apprentices & 40-50 craft apprentices taken on a year
BAE Chadderton - approx 60 craft apprentices a year
Mather & Platt - between 10-20 apprentices a year

You can pick the bones out of the crap YTS stuff that was around, but i know for a fact that my apprenticeship was subsidized to the tune of £5000 a year by the Tory government.
What did Blair & co do? Got rid of them and tried to push everyone into doing mickey-mouse degrees. Any wonder why there might be a skills shortage now.

 

[hilts]

Don't see anything wrong with the principle of the social care proposal... anything above 100k you pay. As if you haven't been dealt good enough cards already is irrelevant. Inheritance is a bigotry anyway. I hope more rational policies like this are implemented.

I've changed my mind on it 4 times already. I finally decided on good idea till I walked out the house this morning and forgot my keys.

 

[smudgedj]

Balaclava man protecting rich pensioners and property owners, Tories grabbing a death tax, posters arguing which politician is the most ill informed the black or the white one. Just need Paul Nutall to marry a polish nanny and Tim farron to accept democracy and we have a full set.

Strange times.

Balaclava man was trying to secure peace that's why there are so many pictures and articles about him meeting with the Protestant side, ah wait...

 

[hilts]

Taking the homes off dead peoples families is being billed as the biggest stealth tax in history according to the Bow Group. Who they? The oldest Conservative Think Tank who boast John Major, Geoffry Howe, Norman Lamont, Michael Howard , Peter Lilley, Ken Clarke, Daniel Hannan and Norman Tebbit in their number - My is going all out to fuck their major constituency off - I am starting to think she has a fiver on Labour - suspicious betting patterns from Number 10?

Her ploy of keeping her head down and not doing much made sense then she throws this grenade into the room. The usual pattern with difficult decisions is to apply a short term bandaid(a couple of billion quid)and let some other fucker deal with it at a much later date. The reaction to it shows the public don't do long term.

 

[MellowJoe]

I've changed my mind on it 4 times already. I finally decided on good idea till I walked out the house this morning and forgot my keys.

My thoughts are incomplete on it also, but on the face of it, it appears to be a great idea... an equalizer. It has nuances, and people have shouted 'Death tax!' but really, the future is all there ever is, so the people who got lucky should give it back when they die. I like it but the country isn't ready for it.

 

[mackenzie]

In the last two elections I voted Lib Dem. This time I'm going with Labour. Really disappointed with the Lib Dem manifesto but impressed with Labour's

 

[bluethrunthru]

You've got to be kidding me.
In the late eighties under Thatcher these are the apprenticeships that i know were around.
GEC Trafford Park - approx 20 technician apprentices & 40-50 craft apprentices taken on a year
BAE Chadderton - approx 60 craft apprentices a year
Mather & Platt - between 10-20 apprentices a year

You can pick the bones out of the crap YTS stuff that was around, but i know for a fact that my apprenticeship was subsidized to the tune of £5000 a year by the Tory government.
What did Blair & co do? Got rid of them and tried to push everyone into doing mickey-mouse degrees. Any wonder why there might be a skills shortage now.

The YTS was introduced in 1983 by the Thatcher Government to replace their failing YOP from 1980 - why the need for both? Because the number of apprenticeships available fell off a cliff. Why? Because industry was being decimated, businesses were closing which meant there were fewer apprenticeships available. Its not rocket science - you put 3m on the dole that means those that were in jobs that took on apprentices no longer did so because the jobs were no longer there. Her answer to mass unemployment in the North East was a load of part time jobs in the Gateshead Garden festival - replacing thousands of full time skilled engineering and manufacturing jobs with a couple of hundred part time jobs in an tourist attraction that was open for about 6 months. And no apprentices.

I am glad you got an apprenticeship but don't base the whole experience for most in the 80's on your good fortune. Max there you are talking 150 apprenticeships pa across 3 major businesses in the 80's. A fraction I would wager of the number they took on in the previous decade every year.

 

[bluethrunthru]

My thoughts are incomplete on it also, but on the face of it, it appears to be a great idea... an equalizer. It has nuances, and people have shouted 'Death tax!' but really, the future is all there ever is, so the people who got lucky should give it back when they die. I like it but the country isn't ready for it.

I do think its very brave myself - to tackle the issue head on with straight talking is actually refreshing. Its obvious something has to be done and this is one approach and all her predecessors have just dodged the issue. It is however electoral suicide - Polltaxv2

 

[bluethrunthru]

Her ploy of keeping her head down and not doing much made sense then she throws this grenade into the room. The usual pattern with difficult decisions is to apply a short term bandaid(a couple of billion quid)and let some other fucker deal with it at a much later date. The reaction to it shows the public don't do long term.

see my other post - as you know I am not a fan of her but I applaud her for having the balls to face up to things and not dodge it like predecessors. Of course we don't - we want the moon on the stick but have someone else pay for it but then condemn any politician who then names who they think should pay. Fucking mad.

 

[mackenzie]

I do think its very brave myself - to tackle the issue head on with straight talking is actually refreshing. Its obvious something has to be done and this is one approach and all her predecessors have just dodged the issue. It is however electoral suicide - Polltaxv2

How weird is this? I'm left leaning but I can understand it too.

 

[MellowJoe]

It is against the grain, so either she's dumb by accident or there is an ulterior motive. It is a mad proposal. Someone said on the radio today; it's like One Direction releasing an album entitled 'All teenage girls are fat and stupid' - hard to know what to make of it.

 

[hilts]

My thoughts are incomplete on it also, but on the face of it, it appears to be a great idea... an equalizer. It has nuances, and people have shouted 'Death tax!' but really, the future is all there ever is, so the people who got lucky should give it back when they die. I like it but the country isn't ready for it.

Not sure I agree with the got lucky bit

 

[hilts]

see my other post - as you know I am not a fan of her but I applaud her for having the balls to face up to things and not dodge it like predecessors. Of course we don't - we want the moon on the stick but have someone else pay for it but then condemn any politician who then names who they think should pay. Fucking mad.

It why the Tories do better in elections than the polls predict. Get people in those polling booths thinking about the money in their pocket.

 

[MellowJoe]

Not sure I agree with the got lucky bit

Well that's my determinism bias creeping in. Falling out of the right vagina/having certain parents.. It's all luck really and it's a fact to be better recognized. We're just a ricochet, and if we're wilfully continuing this mess we should have policies like this. No help from dead mums and dads.. just earn your place.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

I am glad you got an apprenticeship but don't base the whole experience for most in the 80's on your good fortune. Max there you are talking 150 apprenticeships pa across 3 major businesses in the 80's. A fraction I would wager of the number they took on in the previous decade every year.

So what am i supposed to base it on?
Being in Engineering/IT in Manchester under Labour was an absolute shit show. I know people who all did apprenticeships at those previously mentioned companies, and all were made redundant or lost their jobs while Labour was in power.

Funny thing is that i used to be pro-Labour (along with all my family) and used to vote for them. Even when Gordon was leading his constant crusade against temp workers/contractors i was still pretty much in the Labour camp.
I finally decided i couldn''t back them any longer when they introduced University fees, Iraq and also wanting to bring in ID cards.

And i doubt i can vote for them again whilst they still want to carry on punishing the temp worker/contracting sector and whilst people Corbyn & Abbot are involved with them, and keep pandering to their cronies in the unions.

 

[bluethrunthru]

So what am i supposed to base it on?
Being in Engineering/IT in Manchester under Labour was an absolute shit show. I know people who all did apprenticeships at those previously mentioned companies, and all were made redundant or lost their jobs while Labour was in power.

Funny thing is that i used to be pro-Labour (along with all my family) and used to vote for them. Even when Gordon was leading his constant crusade against temp workers/contractors i was still pretty much in the Labour camp.
I finally decided i couldn''t back them any longer when they introduced University fees, Iraq and also wanting to bring in ID cards.

And i doubt i can vote for them again whilst they still want to carry on punishing the temp worker/contracting sector and whilst people Corbyn & Abbot are involved with them, and keep pandering to their cronies in the unions.

It is a matter of fact that industry in Britain was decimated by Thatcherism - unemployment rose to record levels - over 3m. Many of those businesses that closed were no longer there and so apprenticeships were no longer on offer from them. I cannot for the life of me see why you deny that fact - it is well documented if you care to look it up. I am not denying that you and your co-workers had it tough in the Labour years but again international companies making decisions about where to base production isn't just a Labour issue - in fact in some cases you could point the finger at the EU making it easy to move jobs around. You can't change the fact that places like BAE Chadderton closed under Tory rule though. Why didn't they act to save those jobs in the two years after they got elected? Because they could do Jack shit - its international business.

We can agree on that - Bliar / Brown were inept cunts. I never voted New Labour. I was a member of the Labour Party which I lapsed when he added the New. He was a snake oil salesman and Fees, Iraq, ID card were all bollox as was fox hunting bans etc etc - they just played a political game.

I see you have continued to do your research via the Murdoch empire? blah balh Union Cronies, blah blah Abbott blah blah punishing the well catered for temporary worker..... look I won't change your mind and you sure as hell won't change mine.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Well that's my determinism bias creeping in. Falling out of the right vagina/having certain parents.. It's all luck really and it's a fact to be better recognized. We're just a ricochet, and if we're wilfully continuing this mess we should have policies like this. No help from dead mums and dads.. just earn your place.

as evidenced by a certain wedding today.... quite a few fell out of the correct vagina's there

 

[hilts]

Well that's my determinism bias creeping in. Falling out of the right vagina/having certain parents.. It's all luck really and it's a fact to be better recognized. We're just a ricochet, and if we're wilfully continuing this mess we should have policies like this. No help from dead mums and dads.. just earn your place.

Motivation and luck that's what gets you places. There are good arguments both for and against really. In this instance
There is no fair on this subject.

 

[adrianr]

Well that's my determinism bias creeping in. Falling out of the right vagina/having certain parents.. It's all luck really and it's a fact to be better recognized. We're just a ricochet, and if we're wilfully continuing this mess we should have policies like this. No help from dead mums and dads.. just earn your place.

Well she does want us to be an 'aspirational society'!

 

[MellowJoe]

Motivation and luck that's what gets you places. There are good arguments both for and against really. In this instance
There is no fair on this subject.

Well there is a 'fairer' somewhere.. if 100k isn't it.. where is it? 'Inheritance' can't make rational sense, so where do you draw the line?