General Election June 8th

[KenTheLandlord]

What particular point do you disagree with Len? You seem to have completely forgotten the garbage we had to put up with when nationalised industries prevailed. Do you not remember when it used to take 3 months to get the GPO to install a phone line at your house? Do you not remember the Austin Allegro? Were you fond of the record levels of unemployment? The endless strikes? Happy days eh.

The bit that i am not Len, then the rest goes downhill.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Hah....best place for it. Strange how few want to return to those utopian days by voting your mates in.

Not me either and them days are long gone as far as Labour are concerned, there is nothing in the Labour manifesto that suggests those days will come back.
There are aspects of those days still about but it is the tories doing it and will carry on. Always been weak with the economy and only ever looked after their mates.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Two weeks ago I was nailed on a may voter. Now I am not sure at all.

 

[sir baconface]

Not me either and them days are long gone as far as Labour are concerned, there is nothing in the Labour manifesto that suggests those days will come back.
There are aspects of those days still about but it is the tories doing it and will carry on. Always been weak with the economy and only ever looked after their mates.

Unfortunately, both main parties look after their mates. Maybe it's inevitable, but it does get in the way at times of making the best decisions for the country. I think we can agree on that much.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Not me either and them days are long gone as far as Labour are concerned, there is nothing in the Labour manifesto that suggests those days will come back.
There are aspects of those days still about but it is the tories doing it and will carry on. Always been weak with the economy and only ever looked after their mates.

Did you honestly say "always been weak with the economy" of the Tories? What parallel universe do you inhabit FFS? Criticise them by all means on a variety of subjects but the one thing THE one thing they are always strong on, is the economy. If you don't get that, you really don't understand anything at all.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Unfortunately, both main parties look after their mates. Maybe it's inevitable, but it does get in the way at times of making the best decisions for the country. I think we can agree on that much.

I think there is some grounds for that.

Did you honestly say "always been weak with the economy" of the Tories? What parallel universe do you inhabit FFS? Criticise them by all means on a variety of subjects but the one thing THE one thing they are always strong on, is the economy. If you don't get that, you really don't understand anything at all.

The parallel universe we live in, not the one you live in.
Read this and realise all you have been told is a lie. http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/...the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

 

[adrianr]

I have every idea what you understand because you're displaying it.

This is in no way possible, reasonable, or achievable. Anybody who thinks it is is either lying or 100% does not understand this issue.

Taking this away from porn for a minute, if the quote in the following article is true the ramifications behind it are as sinister as they are ridiculous. Interested to hear your thoughts Damo.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ternet-conservatives-government-a7744176.html

The Conservatives will also seek to regulate the kind of news that is posted online and how companies are paid for it. If elected, Theresa May will "take steps to protect the reliability and objectivity of information that is essential to our democracy" – and crack down on Facebook and Google to ensure that news companies get enough advertising money.

Disingenuous way of wording it. The only way to 'protect' legitimate information is to somehow censor the illegitimate information, which first means deciding which is which. Would anyone here like the Government telling you what news channel to watch? Which paper to read?

I have no idea what is making May and co so hellbent on monitoring and controlling everything we do online but it's scaring the crap out of me, regardless of their inability to enact it. I suspect we'll see new powers pushed through whilst everyone is looking the other way at Brexit, just like her Snoopers Charter.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

So someone goes for a well paid, highly qualified job, then finds they are supposed to get it by becoming self employed by setting up their own company and "contracting" so the "employer" can avoid National Insurance. It beggars belief that people would prefer that sort of "choice" to a proper job under a benevolent employer (or at least one where the unions could negotiate some of that benevolence).

Seems to me you have no idea how the temp/contractor sector works. If your above scenario was for a long term appointment, then it would be considered 'disguised' employment and because of mechanisms like IR35 etc the person employed would fall foul of it and be liable for full tax & NI, and wouldn't be allowed benefits such as claiming expenses. It wouldn't be worth taking the position as a contractor, and most people would likely take that positon as staff.

Very few employers nowadays can guarantee long term continuity of work (and a job for life are pretty non-existant nowadays), especially in sectors like engineering or IT.
Therefore the vast majority of temps/contractors are usually brought in to work on projects lasting approx 6-12 months, and for the more highly skilled positions often work away from home. Rates are often volatile and often go down as much as up. Using things like Ltd companies & Umbrella companies etc give people a choice of how they manage their finances so they can cope in times between assignments, when rates drop or allow them to find work outside of there area.
Being staff as a temp/contractor for short term engagements is pretty pointless, as you're entitled to nothing on leaving and unions are a waste of time.

My point still stands that Labour are purposefully targetting a whole sector of the workforce because we don't fall into their ideology, or keep their mates in the unions happy.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Despite them wanting to renationalise industries and hand centralised monopoly power back to politicised twats such as the rail unions? Unions whose members are very comfortable, thank you very much, but who give not a diddly fcuk about customer service and will happily disrupt everyone in pursuit of their latest manufactured "cause". No thanks pal.

Like when the East Coast mainline was handed back by the franchisee because they couldn't make it work so in public ownership it was better run, had few disputes and actually paid 110's of millions back to the treasury and then was re-privatised to provide a better service - which it hasn't and has sucked subsidy back out of the treasury again? You are re-living the 70's fella - as I said I doubt anybody in Labour wants re-nationalisation to lead back to those years industrial relations.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

GEC/Metrovicks - In 1960 the rivalry that had continued between Metrovick and BTH was eventually ended when the AEI management decided to rid themselves of both brands and conduct all their busines under the brand AEI. Seven years later AEI was purchased by GEC which changed its name to Marconi plc in 1999. - nothing to do with labour.

British Aerospace (Chadderton) - The site was closed in 2012, after BAE announced that it was no longer viable to operate from the site. At the time, BAE had 200 employees at the site. 160 employees, and ongoing work at the site, were transferred to Samlesbury Aerodrome - under the tories.

Mather & Platt's - it continues as a food processing and packaging business, trading as M & P Engineering in Trafford Park, Manchester - nothing to do with Labour.

Labour destroyed more engineering in Manchester than Maggie & the Luftwaffe did put together. - quite clearly bollocks.

But it isn't tho.

GEC at trafford park closed 2002 under labours watch.
British Aerospace (Chadderton) might have finally closed when the Tories were in power but all the damage was done earlier. Thousands were employed on the site, and the apprentice school used to take on 60-80 apprentices a year when the Tories were in power. All the mass redundancies and shipping people off to Woodford etc happened under Labours watch.
Mather & Platts was renowned for pumps, not food packaging etc and the site at Newton Heath was gutted and the mass redundancies happened under Labour.

 

[bluethrunthru]

She took assertive action on situations that had been swerved for years by weak politicians and limp-wristed managers. She took on tin-pot militants like Scargill on her own ground and reversed the millions of man hours lost every year to petty disputes. Yes, she was instrumental in closing down lame duck industries but this prepared the ground for radical new thinking: namely that industry and commerce actually needed to be competitive and customer responsive. These truths are taken for granted now. In her day they were heresy.

She fought vested interests and caused short term pain, which is why some hate her. In so doing, she jolted attitudes into the 20th century. That was the catalyst for a relatively prosperous Britain that was otherwise heading down the pan.

she closed down manufacturing in the North. She squandered our oil wealth on supporting the 3m plus unemployed she created ( unlike Norway and look where they are now ) .She proclaimed there was no such thing as society and brought in the me, me, me culture that still pervades today and whilst closing the mines, manufacturing and a traditional Britain that a lot of people now want back. She caused pain because her strategy was to close down ailing industries with no fucking plan on how to replace the job losses that caused and she took no account of the fact that her policies did nothing to address the fundamental failings in UK industry.

Why were we uncompetitive? Mostly because there was a lack of investment by the owners of those businesses to improve productivity. BL cars were shit because of the unions and not because up until the 1990's most relied on the A series engine developed in the late 1940's? Nobody invested. Those in "the City" did well out of things like the big bang but that money leeched out indirectly off shore and directly to Porche and BMW. Why? Because BL was shit and hadn't been invested in.

Her ideas continue to cause pain to this day - productivity in the UK is piss poor compared with EU competitors like Germany and France and the rest of the world laugh at our income inequality and the resultant poor investment levels in industry and poor productivity for such a large economy. Thats why they come and snaffle our rail and utility companies and cream off our money in subsidies - and who was in power when that privatisation bonanza was going on eh?

 

[urban genie]

But it isn't tho.

GEC at trafford park closed 2002 under labours watch.
British Aerospace (Chadderton) might have finally closed when the Tories were in power but all the damage was done earlier. Thousands were employed on the site, and the apprentice school used to take on 60-80 apprentices a year when the Tories were in power. All the mass redundancies and shipping people off to Woodford etc happened under Labours watch.
Mather & Platts was renowned for pumps, not food packaging etc and the site at Newton Heath was gutted and the mass redundancies happened under Labour.

Wasn't GEC trafford park though soley Alstrom by then and not part of the british owned side of the old GEC business with no connection to BAE or Marconni?

So the decission to close was on the part of the french parent company and nowt to do with the government of the day?

 

[bluethrunthru]

But it isn't tho.

GEC at trafford park closed 2002 under labours watch.
British Aerospace (Chadderton) might have finally closed when the Tories were in power but all the damage was done earlier. Thousands were employed on the site, and the apprentice school used to take on 60-80 apprentices a year when the Tories were in power. All the mass redundancies and shipping people off to Woodford etc happened under Labours watch.
Mather & Platts was renowned for pumps, not food packaging etc and the site at Newton Heath was gutted and the mass redundancies happened under Labour.

Eh? So the company GEC / Metrovick had long since existed in that form when it became a branch of Marconi in 1999. I would guess several changes of owner and moving production around new owners organisation did more to devastate the company from 1960 to which to refer.

I was wrong - 2012 not 2011 when when BAE Chaddy shut. Of course when a Tory Govt was in power but you choose to claim Labour closed it. Not again rationalisation in a Europe wide organisation - Chadderton may have shut but I'd guess jobs were moved to places like Woodford. And that was the direct result of the actions of a Labour Govt? Can you just say what Labour did to cause that?

Again Mathers were taken over - its called international trade in a capitalist world - and so pumps assembly was moved and the nature of the production at Mathers was changed to packaging. Again I'd ask you to state specifically what did Labour do to affect that change?

More worryingly is the fact that skilled production jobs were moved abroad probably because it was cheaper to produce there ( India? ) and probably due to the UK skills shortage - you know all those apprenticeships that were binned in the 1980's under Thatcher. Her bold and visionary review of UK plc continues to have its effects today as skill shortages persist due to the lack of time served qualified labour that stems from her industrial policy. Furthermore we plug that gap with skilled labour that benefits from free movement around Europe - we are about to choke that supply off then who will keep the skilled manufacturing jobs in the UK? Maysim is as narrow minded as Thatcherism and will be equally negative - and sadly folk like you will blame it all on Labour and the Unions over 40 years ago

 

[bluethrunthru]

Wasn't GEC trafford park though soley Alstrom by then and not part of the british owned side of the old GEC business with no connection to BAE or Marconni?

So the decission to close was on the part of the french parent company and nowt to do with the government of the day?

In five years time a skilled job in the UK will be making cornflake packets at Mathers - the rest will have been moved to where the skills are in Europe by the business owners - the Governments of EU countries. We may control our borders and prevent people coming in ( easy when none of them want to come anyway as there are no skilled jobs ) but we won't be able to control the jobs going out.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

Wasn't GEC trafford park though soley Alstrom by then and not part of the british owned side of the old GEC business with no connection to BAE or Marconni?
So the decission to close was on the part of the french parent company and nowt to do with the government of the day?

One of GEC at Trafford Park's main threat came when the power industry was privatised (by the Tories of course) and it was under severe chance of closure. This was averted by shifting to building Gas fired power stations and the Tories enabling policies to encourage & compensate for this, with what became known as 'the Dash for Gas'.
Loads of gas (or CCGT) power stations were then built between 1991 and 2002 which pretty much kept GEC trafford park operating (and also power engineering within the UK).
When Labour came to power they removed all the previous incentives that were there, which pretty much killed off power engineering in the UK (and why we now need to use French companies like EDF to build our new power stations),

Also there was approx 140 seperate companies under the GEC banner around the 90's-2000, with i think 7 (GEC Traction & Hotpoint included etc) based at Trafford Park. GEC Traction were involved in Metrolink and although i'm not sure exactly what happened, it was inferred to me by people involved that certain actions & decisions by Labour when in power, greatly led to its demise at the site.

Leading up to site closing there was various mergers & sell offs, with a lot being cherry picked by foreign institutions & companies before being dissolved.

 

[hilts]

Balaclava man protecting rich pensioners and property owners, Tories grabbing a death tax, posters arguing which politician is the most ill informed the black or the white one. Just need Paul Nutall to marry a polish nanny and Tim farron to accept democracy and we have a full set.

Strange times.

 

[MellowJoe]

May trying to merge Tory and Labour..

'Laboratory'? sounds scientific.. and we love that.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Also there was approx 140 seperate companies under the GEC banner around the 90's-2000, with i think 7 (GEC Traction & Hotpoint included etc) based at Trafford Park. GEC Traction were involved in Metrolink and although i'm not sure exactly what happened, it was inferred to me by people involved that certain actions & decisions by Labour when in power, greatly led to its demise at the site.

Leading up to site closing there was various mergers & sell offs, with a lot being cherry picked by foreign institutions & companies before being dissolved.

Fucking Labour bastards eh? Up to things that look like no good according to people who may or may not know and disguising themselves as foreign businesses to buy up UK businesses - will they stop at nothing to fuel conspiracy theories............

 

[bluethrunthru]

Balaclava man protecting rich pensioners and property owners, Tories grabbing a death tax, posters arguing which politician is the most ill informed the black or the white one. Just need Paul Nutall to marry a polish nanny and Tim farron to accept democracy and we have a full set.

Strange times.

Taking the homes off dead peoples families is being billed as the biggest stealth tax in history according to the Bow Group. Who they? The oldest Conservative Think Tank who boast John Major, Geoffry Howe, Norman Lamont, Michael Howard , Peter Lilley, Ken Clarke, Daniel Hannan and Norman Tebbit in their number - My is going all out to fuck their major constituency off - I am starting to think she has a fiver on Labour - suspicious betting patterns from Number 10?

 

[MellowJoe]

Don't see anything wrong with the principle of the social care proposal... anything above 100k you pay. As if you haven't been dealt good enough cards already is irrelevant. Inheritance is a bigotry anyway. I hope more rational policies like this are implemented.