George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

[Bigga]

He’s not wrong though.
It’s pretty much what I feel when I see these police departments bending the knee and saying they feel the pain too.

It’s not that I doubt the sincerity of the individuals, but everything is stage managed for television in the US including the CNN coverage, which is better than some I’ve seen, but like all 24 hour news channels they are constantly looking for the next iconic image to fill a few hours repeatedly.

I’m not trying to be wilfully cynical when I ask the question about peaceful demonstrations in America. What’s the point?
The real work in change is done by people on the ground at the coal face.
I’m not against people marching but the real support has to be sustained behind the scenes away from the media photo opportunities.

If white folk care so much, we need to work at local Community level. If police are so concerned they need to initiate community policing. Not be a law enforcement agency. Be a community policing body. Working with not against the community.

There are very genuine emotions being shown and very genuine people too trying to coordinate these marches, but the media channels are full of people grabbing a pious moment also.

If this leads to permanent cooperation across races and cultures at grass roots level, that’s great and would be a start, but once the decisions rise through the various corridors of power, you’re in the system and business takes over. Capitalism won’t allow too much change. Money talks and protects money.

Slavery was abolished a long time ago, but the poor remain the poor and breaking out of that is harder still for certain communities, more than others, because there is very little help offered by a system that wants cheap labour.

I don’t have an answer for our own problems, let alone America’s, but I still think having certain elements of society legally armed to the teeth while the divide between the extremes gets wider and wider, does not auger well, especially with Trump at the helm.

Beautifully crafted, mate.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

 

[Bigga]

And i know who I am, and what i have done before.

So don't preach your moral compass to try and belittle me on a forum.

I've helped out plenty of people in their time of need

You're confused, then.

If you've gone out of your way to help someone distressed, then you've taken a side, whether that's left or right.

You just don't like labels.

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

You're confused, then.

If you've gone out of your way to help someone distressed, then you've taken a side, whether that's left or right.

You just don't like labels.

I have literally said numerous time that i wouldn't side with a far left group or a far right group.

So what does that have to do with me a side of helping someone out?

But you are right it is more of being labelled

 

[Tugay One Cup]

I Wouldn't stand with either, but each to their own.

And yes they do, there is legit proof of this online from various goings on over time. here in the UK and US

There is also legitimate proof that there have been numerous Antifa hoaxes where right wing groups have instigated violence under the guise of Antifa activism in order to disrupt and discredit the movement.

Perhaps most unsettling was the filing of a lawsuit by a Harvard lecturer pertaining to the Louisiana State Police Department's use of a hoax list in order to authorize the investigation and litigation of signees of an anti-Trump petition. This list was also shared by the LSP with non-LSP law enforcement.

On August 27, 2018, while searching through the first batch of 64 emails, Mr. Most noticed several high-ranking LSP officers sharing a document entitled “full list of antifa.docx” in August 2017. The dossier was also shared with non-LSP law enforcement, including an official from the Lafayette Parish Sheriff’s Office.

The LSP “Antifa” emails were sent just days after the conspiracy theory website “8Chan” published a fake dossier of what purported to be a full list of “Antifa.” The hoax was promoted on Neo-Nazi websites like Stormfront. The purported “Antifa” roster contains the names of thousands of ordinary, law-abiding citizens who signed an online petition against President Trump.

LSP has refused to disclose the “full list of antifa.docx” records. The Agency claims that releasing the document could “compromise” an ongoing criminal investigation in which LSP anticipates arrests, and reveal the identity of its “Confidential Informant.”

It seems naive in the extreme that someone wouldn't consider that people who spend their careers running smear campaigns and character assassinations of their opposition are likely to... run smear campaigns and character assassinations to discredit their opposition.

The fear of communism and socialism is so engrained into the American ideology that they are always going to do everything in their power to crush a movement which welcomed those ideologies they feel threated by.

And no, Antifa isn't "as bad as any far right group". Firstly, they're not a group, they're a set of autonomous groups. Secondly, far right organisations such as Identity Evropa (the ones accused of the latest Antifa Twitter hoax) are legitimately classified as white supremacist hate groups. Not only do they deliberately spread disinformation by pretending to be someone they aren't (such as disguising themselves as construction workers whilst leading a demonstration outside the Mexican consulate calling for the US to build the wall), their actual founder Nathan Damigo - who has legitimate military ties - has been filmed punching a woman in the face and running away at the 2017 Berkley protests.

Then there's the National Socialist Movement's involvement in Charlottesville and the Ku Klux Klan who are still operational to this day and famously had the support of Trump's dad.

Funnily enough, often they promote a pro-Trump agenda while he has continually refused to criticise these far right groups.

The information is publicly available and I don't know how anyone who has looked into it for even a brief moment could come to the conclusion that "Antifa is just as bad as far right groups".

There's considering two sides to an argument and there's utter bollocks.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Your right, I am.

And it is an informed opinion.

Plus i don't need to have a internet strangers respect.

HAHA

Then why post? The rules apply in here just as much as if you were making a tit of yourself at the Summerbee Bar.

What you fail to understand, because you won't understand, is when you blurt out....

They are both as bad as each other.

That puts you on the side of the oppressor.

I can't believe I need to quote this.....

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

There is also legitimate proof that there have been numerous Antifa hoaxes where right wing groups have instigated violence under the guise of Antifa activism in order to disrupt and discredit the movement.

Perhaps most unsettling was the filing of a lawsuit by a Harvard lecturer pertaining to the Louisiana State Police Department's use of a hoax list in order to authorize the investigation and litigation of signees of an anti-Trump petition. This list was also shared by the LSP with non-LSP law enforcement.

On August 27, 2018, while searching through the first batch of 64 emails, Mr. Most noticed several high-ranking LSP officers sharing a document entitled “full list of antifa.docx” in August 2017. The dossier was also shared with non-LSP law enforcement, including an official from the Lafayette Parish Sheriff’s Office.

The LSP “Antifa” emails were sent just days after the conspiracy theory website “8Chan” published a fake dossier of what purported to be a full list of “Antifa.” The hoax was promoted on Neo-Nazi websites like Stormfront. The purported “Antifa” roster contains the names of thousands of ordinary, law-abiding citizens who signed an online petition against President Trump.

LSP has refused to disclose the “full list of antifa.docx” records. The Agency claims that releasing the document could “compromise” an ongoing criminal investigation in which LSP anticipates arrests, and reveal the identity of its “Confidential Informant.”

It seems naive in the extreme that someone wouldn't consider that people who spend their careers running smear campaigns and character assassinations of their opposition are likely to... run smear campaigns and character assassinations to discredit their opposition.

The fear of communism and socialism is so engrained into the American ideology that they are always going to do everything in their power to crush a movement which welcomed those ideologies they feel threated by.

And no, Antifa isn't "as bad as any far right group". Firstly, they're not a group, they're a set of autonomous groups. Secondly, far right organisations such as Identity Evropa (the ones accused of the latest Antifa Twitter hoax) are legitimately classified as white supremacist hate groups. Not only do they deliberately spread disinformation by pretending to be someone they aren't (such as disguising themselves as construction workers whilst leading a demonstration outside the Mexican consulate calling for the US to build the wall), their actual founder Nathan Damigo - who has legitimate military ties - has been filmed punching a woman in the face and running away at the 2017 Berkley protests.

Then there's the National Socialist Movement's involvement in Charlottesville and the Ku Klux Klan who are still operational to this day and famously had the support of Trump's dad.

Funnily enough, often they promote a pro-Trump agenda while he has continually refused to criticise these far right groups.

The information is publicly available and I don't know how anyone who has looked into it for even a brief moment could come to the conclusion that "Antifa is just as bad as far right groups".

There's considering two sides to an argument and there's utter bollocks.

Antifa have been around for a long time, not just cropped up because of Trump.

I am also meaning with Antifa not just in the US, but everywhere including the UK.

I have also talked about the proof being out there for not just this situation.

They are both as bad as each other, violence etc. They are just doing if for different reasons.

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

Then why post? The rules apply in here just as much as if you were making a tit of yourself at the Summerbee Bar.

What you fail to understand, because you won't understand, is when you blurt out....


That puts you on the side of the oppressor.

I can't believe I need to quote this.....

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Jesus,

Have a day off.

On the side of the oppressor indeed.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

So they are thick because they want to defend their homes from rioters?

The only thing they are defending are their 2nd Amendment rights. These clowns were emboldened by the Orange Idiots 8 minute speech in which he said;

[I am mobilising] all available federal resources — civilian and military — to stop the rioting and looting, to end the destruction and arson, and to protect the rights of law-abiding Americans, including your Second Amendment rights".

There was absolutely no need for that 2A comment. I wonder if it's anything to do with the fact that the majority of gun owners are white Republican males?

 

[inbetween]

He’s not wrong though.
It’s pretty much what I feel when I see these police departments bending the knee and saying they feel the pain too.

It’s not that I doubt the sincerity of the individuals, but everything is stage managed for television in the US including the CNN coverage, which is better than some I’ve seen, but like all 24 hour news channels they are constantly looking for the next iconic image to fill a few hours repeatedly.

I’m not trying to be wilfully cynical when I ask the question about peaceful demonstrations in America. What’s the point?
The real work in change is done by people on the ground at the coal face.
I’m not against people marching but the real support has to be sustained behind the scenes away from the media photo opportunities.

If white folk care so much, we need to work at local Community level. If police are so concerned they need to initiate community policing. Not be a law enforcement agency. Be a community policing body. Working with not against the community.

There are very genuine emotions being shown and very genuine people too trying to coordinate these marches, but the media channels are full of people grabbing a pious moment also.

If this leads to permanent cooperation across races and cultures at grass roots level, that’s great and would be a start, but once the decisions rise through the various corridors of power, you’re in the system and business takes over. Capitalism won’t allow too much change. Money talks and protects money.

Slavery was abolished a long time ago, but the poor remain the poor and breaking out of that is harder still for certain communities, more than others, because there is very little help offered by a system that wants cheap labour.

I don’t have an answer for our own problems, let alone America’s, but I still think having certain elements of society legally armed to the teeth while the divide between the extremes gets wider and wider, does not auger well, especially with Trump at the helm.

Much of the protest and virtue signalling we have seen is dominated by the left who are stealing the real issue of racism to frame a narrative against Trump. Trump doesn't help himself in his response of course but he isn't at fault for what has happened in the US for centuries.

This exact same problem was a feature of the Obama presidency but we never saw the political left and ANTIFA types marching on the White House. The only difference with Obama is he probably supported the cause yet the fact is like this president and every before him, he did nothing about it.

Also, an argument on capitalism shows how silly this is. There are countries with capitalist systems that have no problem with racism. There are socialist countries and communist countries that have problems with racism, the Latin and Eastern countries being a prime example.

Racism is a product of culture. The only way to delete racism is to change the culture of how black people are stereotyped and viewed in society. I think more positive things have been done on that in the last 50 years than at anytime in history.

All of that has been achieved in the west by celebrating a free society, a free government and a predominately free system where people are free to make their own choices.

The current expression on the streets to some degree is celebrating the opposite, instead using a genuine issue to force a narrative on forcing a system of government aligned to a specific groups views.