George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

[Blue Hefner]

It’s the Młodzieżowa Olimpiada Wiedzy o Społeczeństwie in Poland

I thought that, just looking for clarification.....

 

[stonerblue]

The black and white minstrels were about 45 yrs ago if my memory serves me correct,i used to watch them but never thought it was wrong,i really like alf garnett as well,i thought the joke was on him really,the more recent stuff like bo selector wasn't offencive,he was taking off a person so he had to be their colour or it wouldn't have worked,it wasn't racist,neither was ant and dec with their undercover stuff,it wasn't racist,o am really disappointed that those two shows are apologising for it

The families of George and others killed by the police or those here who get hassle off our police are not bothered about ant and dec show or Keith lemon

Imagine being asked to come here from the windies to work. After a hard days graft you see garnett on prime time telly taking the piss.
I doubt i'd find it harmless fun.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Nigel Farage, King of the “All Lives Matter” gaslight racists, has quit his role at LBC after being criticised for comparing BLM to The Taliban.

Presumably there is more money to be made on the after-dinner scene in the US or some dark corner of the internet where he will tell people who don’t watch the news what the ‘MSN’ are keeping from them.....

 

[stonerblue]

Yeah but unfortunately there's a lot of dim cunts in the world.

Not according to the brexit thread..

 

[meltonblue]

Imagine being asked to come here from the windies to work. After a hard days graft you see garnett on prime time telly taking the piss.
I doubt i'd find it harmless fun.

To be fair, Garnett was never supposed to be fun, he was supposed to be the object of ridicule. It’s entirely satire.

 

[stonerblue]

You’ll have to forgive me. What does MOWOS mean?

music of white origin awards

 

[stonerblue]

It’s the Młodzieżowa Olimpiada Wiedzy o Społeczeństwie in Poland

and that

 

[stonerblue]

To be fair, Garnett was never supposed to be fun, he was supposed to be the object of ridicule. It’s entirely satire.

hard to grasp sattire in a different language

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Indeed.

I can’t remember who said this but I know a quote that says; “I cannot offend you, you can only choose to be offended”.

People these days often can’t seem to grasp that a joke is not necessarily joking about the topic that’s even being talked about in the joke. The joke is actually often about a sub-plot to the joke or individual in the joke and not the punchline to the joke. So people actually claim to be offended by something that’s not even offensive.

Ricky Gervais’ most recent stand-up Humanity talks in depth about this, and his views are spot on!

Chris Rock said in an interview once that Political Correctness is ruining comedy and; “you can’t even be offensive on your way to being inoffensive”.

Aussie comic Steve Hughes also talks about this a lot.

Stephen Fry is also right;

That's certainly true, if that's all you say. But I'm sure Stephen Fry wouldn't expand on that to say "and therefore it's fine to be racist/homophobic/etc." The point is that if you're going to say that something is offensive, you've got to explain what it's offensive to the satisfaction of enough people, and ideally, to the person who made/said the joke. The problem at the moment is that because of the current situation, people may be accepting that something is racist because to deny it in the current climate will make you appear even more racist. Whereas with someone like Matt Lucas, he was actually convinced a while ago about the problems with his past comedy as has Graham Linehan when he wrote a trans character in The IT Crowd. But both of those happened organically.

One thing you'll notice is that all of these programmes that are being talked about right now are comedy sketch shows. And obviously the reason why they blacked up in every case is that by definition a sketch group involves the performers in the sketch group playing all of the roles, be they male, female, gay, straight, disabled, or whatever. Whereas the objection to blackface, other than the offensive stereotypes of black people and the history of using it to whip up hatred (see Birth of a Nation), is that it denies minority actors roles. Obviously that's not necessarily the case in sketch comedy groups, where they deny roles to anyone who's not in the group. Having said that, Mitchell and Webb managed to run a sketch show with a selection of other actors when they needed female or ethnic minority characters. But let's be honest, it wasn't as if in the early 2000s, people didn't know that it was often considered racist to black up for the purpose of a joke, be it a professional BBC-funded joke, or someone having a laugh at a fancy dress party.

 

[meltonblue]

hard to grasp sattire in a different language

I’d be more concerned about those that don’t grasp it in their native language first! You do have to be careful with it though, I agree.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

To be fair, Garnett was never supposed to be fun, he was supposed to be the object of ridicule. It’s entirely satire.

I've only ever seen maybe a couple of episodes, and that was my impression. The black guy is represented as well-spoken and educated, and Alf Garnett is the idiot. Having said that, I think the main reason it's not shown any more isn't because it's racist, but because the jokes don't really work any more. It relies on those sort of views being pretty widespread and that's why it's aged badly in a way that comedies about more universal or timeless themes haven't.

 

[Blue Hefner]

music of white origin awards

Brilliant

 

[kaz7]

The families of George and others killed by the police are probably well versed enough on racial politics to know that it doesn't start and end with police on the job. It extends right through society which is still stacking the deck against minorities in myriad ways. What makes the police treat black people differently? Why is it that the silent majority in America took decades to finally take it seriously?

The entire culture in America and other white countries is permeated with these echoes of old racist stereo types that still effect people on a daily basis. So if you've been part of that and learned it was wrong, it's absolutely the right thing to say, "look we were ignorant, we're sorry we did this unknowingly, we won't do it again".

I can't answer why America enables and even supports the police violence to black and ethnics,that is a question for them,policing by force where one side has guns and most of the others don't is only going to end one way,the police system seems to work on a power crazy basis and officers that think killing a black man in the street like this whilst he was being filmed was no problem,it is crazy

They also have a whole lot of racist history that is deeply rooted

Back to the comedy,you can't tell me bo selector and ant and Dec are racist or taking the piss out of black people,the comedy of the 70's in hindsight was although it never turned me into a raving racist,people need to put that on individuals and not comedy shows,becoming racists comes from family imo ,balance the 70's with beautiful black music that people loved,there was a balance of sorts

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Brilliant

I think I've found the winners.

 

[kaz7]

BBC asked this guy about the baden-powell statue




Think they need to check under his patio tbh

He looks like the sort to have someone locked up in a cellar

 

[kaz7]

Imagine being asked to come here from the windies to work. After a hard days graft you see garnett on prime time telly taking the piss.
I doubt i'd find it harmless fun.

In my defence i was a kid

 

[Fame Monster]

It’s relevant to Black British people. That is the point. It is relevant to them. Just as we, as predominantly white British people, remember or celebrate what we regard as relevant to us, the same courtesy should be extended to other groups. Just as Jewish British remember the Holocaust because of its relevance to them.

As for not being able to see the link between how Black people were viewed then and how they are viewed or treated now, it kind of speaks for itself. You might as well just say ‘I don’t get it’ and you don’t. It has no meaning or relevance to you. It doesn’t touch your life until something like this happens and then you lecture them about ‘education’ and ‘history’. But it does touch their lives, so whilst you may not get it the least you can do is respect it.

It might be relevant to some black people, yes and I've not got a problem with people remembering it but I don't have to agree that something that happened to people (who may or may not have been their ancestors) 200-500 years ago should fuel their sense of grievance about issues they may face today.

If those people think they suffer racism as a result of the TST, I think they're mistaken. Racism is about the hatred/fear of otherness and existed long before the TST and will exist long after.

Asians face more negative outcomes in many aspects of the criminal justice system (some might call that racism) than blacks, and while some Asians have obviously been enslaved at certain points over the course of human history, they were never the main victims of the TST.

As for your analogy, the big difference between the TST and the Holocaust is that there are Jews alive today who survived it so it does and should have a greater relevance to them.

 

[Rascal]

Go to Alexandra Park in Oldham and there is a plaque that mentions the fact that it is a "Cotton Famine Park",created by Oldham Council to give much needed work to unemployed cotton workers during that time.
I am not 100% certain but I think that other parks around Lancashire were created for the same reason.
So even then,160 years ago Britain was entwined with the United States,economically,socially and politically.

The mill towns around Manchester supported Lincoln and paid for it by starving.

Meanwhile the British government was sending military advisors to the Confederacy. Robert E Lee's famous march north to Washington which ended in defeat at Gettysburg which led eventually to Lincoln's famous Gettysburg address. The Confederacy had hoped to put pressure on the Union as Lincoln was facing an election in 1864 and they hoped that if they defeated the Union army, Britain and France would recognise the Confederacy as a legitimate state. The importance of the battle is astonishing, Lee knew that and ordered the famous Picketts charge, one of the bloodiest events of the Civil war. If Lee had won it could well of meant that the USA never became as powerful as it did and there still might be a slave state in the American south.

BTW I absolve Lee from any blame for leading the Confederate army, he was offered the overall command of the Union Army at the start of the war but declined because he was a man of Virginia and he put his state before his country.

An interesting side note for you history buffs here is Lincoln's Gettysburg address



Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
—Abraham Lincoln

 

[bluemcr]

Fuck me, you moan about nobody talking about a heinous occurence in an attempt to discredit legitimate protest then tell me you don't have the time to engage?

Bad day at the office? I've not discredited the protest. Get off your keyboard and go for walk ffs. He was murdered and it's been dealt with. People go on about like this terrible situation is the only bad thing that's happened. It's a fucked up world and its run by powerful people who like to play god behind the scenes.

 

[manclad]

The mill towns around Manchester supported Lincoln and paid for it by starving.

Meanwhile the British government was sending military advisors to the Confederacy. Robert E Lee's famous march north to Washington which ended in defeat at Gettysburg which led eventually to Lincoln's famous Gettysburg address. The Confederacy had hoped to put pressure on the Union as Lincoln was facing an election in 1864 and they hoped that if they defeated the Union army, Britain and France would recognise the Confederacy as a legitimate state. The importance of the battle is astonishing, Lee knew that and ordered the famous Picketts charge, one of the bloodiest events of the Civil war. If Lee had won it could well of meant that the USA never became as powerful as it did and there still might be a slave state in the American south.

BTW I absolve Lee from any blame for leading the Confederate army, he was offered the overall command of the Union Army at the start of the war but declined because he was a man of Virginia and he put his state before his country.

An interesting side note for you history buffs here is Lincoln's Gettysburg address



Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
—Abraham Lincoln

Whenever I see the Gettysberg Address it always reminds me of Kindergarten Cop. I love the little kids dressed up as Lincoln et al.( Four score and seven years ago etc). I'm just a big soft twat at heart.