George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

[mancity2012_eamo]

That's not a fact. That's an assumption. Facts in this scenario will only include things that already happened. An assumption is what you think would have happened. The above claim falls in the latter category.


1. He wasn't walking towards a protest with a rifle. He was stationed at a Used Car Lot hoping to protect it from rioters ( not Protestors) who were looking to loot and burn businesses down. He was there being interviewed by a reporter when one of the protestors accosted him.

2. He wasn't driven there by his mom. Another false story. He works in Kenosha as a lifeguard and stayed after work to join the Militia guarding properties.


I have to agree with your conclusion that we are fucked though. But I'd suggest thstd because more and more people care more about sides than they do about facts. And that I believe is a recipe for disaster.

I accept that my first statement is an assumption. I did actually expect this back from you.
However regarding the America being truly fucked statement, I see the use of semantics in what is clearly obvious to the outside world as every bit as telling.
Everyone has a right to a defence but if you look at the logic of the societal situation you have, you are correct in saying that people’s views on the right and wrong of things are getting polarised, more and more.

I believe the flak you take in here is very much as a result of you seemingly mirroring Trumps MO of defending one sides actions rather than acknowledging how or why these actions come about.

I don’t know you and won’t assume I know your motivation, but although I’m by no means an expert on American politics or society, I know that what I am watching is not normal.

The right and the wrong of this situation as far as I’m concerned is that kid had no business being there.
A militia had no business being there.
Whether it was legal or not has little bearing on the right and wrong of it in my view.
I could not live in a country like that.
I would not even visit America in the current situation you are in.

From where I’m sitting where you are heading is being driven by Trump and whoever the brains(for want of a better term) are behind him. Quite deliberately and anyone defending that trampling of your constitution is part of the problem.
It’s a big problem considering he could realistically win on something like a core support of 40% or so.

I make no apologies that I consider Trump a vile self interested piece of shit.
I did before he entered politics and I see that hey only getting worse.

He is pushing division and antagonising situations like the shooting of Blake in the back 7 times in front of his kids purposely for his own ends.

He goes to the scene and defends the kid and doesn’t mention Blake. Doesn’t mention the why’s of the protest. Highlights that left wing terrorists are being flown in for protests in all the Democratic cities for these protests with contradictory statements and no actual detail or evidence.
Where are the facts there.
Where are the facts in anything he comes out with.

If this is what you repeatedly choose to defend you can expect flak because what I regard as normal people will find what is going on as very transparent.

Back to my original assumption.
Whether you believe it or not I’ll repeat, if that kid was black walking through a protest with an assault rifle, he’d be one of the deceased now. I assume.

 

[stonerblue]

You know one of the sentences that pissing me off when discussing BLM.

"Their ancestors had a lot worse. They should be grateful."


It's like there's a willful blindness toward the inequality. I have my subconscious bias from my upbringing and experience and I will educate myself further and support the fight for equality. Some people are protecting their own little molehills should learn that being unites together we get the whole fucking mountain range together if we stand up to the people who deliberately divide and rule us to protect their own selfish agendas.

Afuckinmen to that brother.

 

[Bigga]

I know.

You are engaging in what's called a “system of confirmation” – an utterance that is neither truth nor fact, but rather a way of reinforcing a false narrative written by those it benefits. We have not fought, nor do we fight, for the reasons you've outlined.

The fact you believe it and a great number of veterans might believe it, does not make it true, and the reason it is not true, is it is not born out by the facts.

The reason our soldiers are told to fight and the reason our soldiers actually fight are, often, stratospheres apart.

I think I'll leave it there as you don't seem to respect soldiers that have fought for what they believed in, right or wrong.

I would do everything in my power to stop a person going to war for the 'wrong' reasons as long as I'm alive. Outside of that particular parameter there's nought I can do.

You believe what you will regarding soldiers and I will do the same.

 

[Dax777]

Genuine question but how do you know your facts are correct? Must be difficult over there what with all the fake news.

Most of the information I have given is in the complaint filed by the Prosecutor under oath. It's available for anyone to read.

1. The prosecutor is trying to convict him, so we can reasonably assume his facts are not written to help the shooter.

2. He is also by law required to state the truth as best he knows it. News agency and narrative crafters do not have this requirement. Based on interviews, and investigations of all the available evidence.

As to being hard to finding reliable facts. I'd somewhat agree. You have to almost approach each story with a series of questions intended to get to the bottom of the story. Generally, reporting is often biased to one side or the other. So you almost have to truck through ball sides to get the facts. News agencies on America have become very skilled at not lying, but cleverly ommitting certain facts or overemphasizing others, thus nudging listeners to reach a certain conclusion.

If the lad was "stationed" at a post, who instructed him to do that and what training did he have? Does this militia use communication between themselves so he can ask for assistance from other militia members or law enforcement?

In truth I won't have factual answers to some of the questions you posed. But my assumption is that they are members a Militia and they probably had a meeting like most groups do and plans of where to defend and position themselves as deterrants to those who intend to use the protest as a cover to burn and loot.

As for training I doubt they have much outside of shooting practice. But these are all assumptions on my part.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I accept that my first statement is an assumption. I did actually expect this back from you.
However regarding the America being truly fucked statement, I see the use of semantics in what is clearly obvious to the outside world as every bit as telling.
Everyone has a right to a defence but if you look at the logic of the societal situation you have, you are correct in saying that people’s views on the right and wrong of things are getting polarised, more and more.

I believe the flak you take in here is very much as a result of you seemingly mirroring Trumps MO of defending one sides actions rather than acknowledging how or why these actions come about.

I don’t know you and won’t assume I know your motivation, but although I’m by no means an expert on American politics or society, I know that what I am watching is not normal.

The right and the wrong of this situation as far as I’m concerned is that kid had no business being there.
A militia had no business being there.
Whether it was legal or not has little bearing on the right and wrong of it in my view.
I could not live in a country like that.
I would not even visit America in the current situation you are in.

From where I’m sitting where you are heading is being driven by Trump and whoever the brains(for want of a better term) are behind him. Quite deliberately and anyone defending that trampling of your constitution is part of the problem.
It’s a big problem considering he could realistically win on something like a core support of 40% or so.

I make no apologies that I consider Trump a vile self interested piece of shit.
I did before he entered politics and I see that hey only getting worse.

He is pushing division and antagonising situations like the shooting of Blake in the back 7 times in front of his kids purposely for his own ends.

He goes to the scene and defends the kid and doesn’t mention Blake. Doesn’t mention the why’s of the protest. Highlights that left wing terrorists are being flown in for protests in all the Democratic cities for these protests with contradictory statements and no actual detail or evidence.
Where are the facts there.
Where are the facts in anything he comes out with.

If this is what you repeatedly choose to defend you can expect flak because what I regard as normal people will find what is going on as very transparent.

Back to my original assumption.
Whether you believe it or not I’ll repeat, if that kid was black walking through a protest with an assault rifle, he’d be one of the deceased now. I assume.

To be fair to Trump (I know), this racism didn't just appear when he was elected, but he is certainly not doing anything to help the situation. He is ACTIVELY trying to make the situation worse to further his political aim's, i.e stay in office and run out the statute of limitation for prosecutions in active cases against him, and also to serve whoever is pulling the strings to get him re-elected.

Plus, he's a racist c*nt anyway

 

[Dax777]

And just happened to have his AR-15 with him at work?

Because that seems a perfectly normal thing to do.....

Ah! Another one who has chosen to blind himself from the facts.
The AR 15 isn't his. Belonged to one of the leaders of the Militia guarding businesses.

Somehow basic facts tend to evade so many. Again, I'll repeat. There is a complaint and a Response filed in court. Do yourselves a favor: Read it.

You can still conclude whatever suits you. But at least know the facts. That should be something everyone should want.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

Most of the information I have given is in the complaint filed by the Prosecutor under oath. It's available for anyone to read.

1. The prosecutor is trying to convict him, so we can reasonably assume his facts are not written to help the shooter.

2. He is also by law required to state the truth as best he knows it. News agency and narrative crafters do not have this requirement. Based on interviews, and investigations of all the available evidence.

As to being hard to finding reliable facts. I'd somewhat agree. You have to almost approach each story with a series of questions intended to get to the bottom of the story. Generally, reporting is often biased to one side or the other. So you almost have to truck through ball sides to get the facts. News agencies on America have become very skilled at not lying, but cleverly ommitting certain facts or overemphasizing others, thus nudging listeners to reach a certain conclusion.



In truth I won't have factual answers to some of the questions you posed. But my assumption is that they are members a Militia and they probably had a meeting like most groups do and plans of where to defend and position themselves as deterrants to those who intend to use the protest as a cover to burn and loot.

As for training I doubt they have much outside of shooting practice. But these are all assumptions on my part.

Ok thanks.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Ah! Another one who has chosen to blind himself from the facts.
The AR 15 isn't his. Belonged to one of the leaders of the Militia guarding businesses.

Somehow basic facts tend to evade so many. Again, I'll repeat. There is a complaint and a Response filed in court. Do yourselves a favor: Read it.

You can still conclude whatever suits you. But at least know the facts. That should be something everyone should want.

I accept facts are quite important Dax but honestly, your obsession with them does come across as semantics and quite frankly in some debates with posters just seem like deflection from the real issues.

What does it matter who owned the rifle.
Makes absolutely no difference to the absurdity of the situation this kid found himself in, in a supposed normal society.

I’d be more concerned about the brain washing of the youth of America, considering this kid had been seen as a front row attendee at a Trump rally.

He didn’t end up out on that street by accident.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You’re within your rights to believe whatever it is you wish to believe.

This is not directed at you personally.

But those that believe that black lives don't matter believe that.

Are we really within our rights to believe what we want?

What about those that view what is perceived as terrorist material on the internet, or so called "hate preachers", or those that join "proscribed" hate groups, or those that believe trans women are not women? Or those that "hate" Britain and its cherished institutions?

And who is it that decides what is and what is not acceptable thought?

Free speech does not entitle you to lie and shout "fire" in a crowded cinema, we all know this, what is less well known is that freedom of thought is increasingly hemmed in by various legal/non legal and corporate policy initiatives. People go to prison, get visits from the local plod and a hate incident registered, have their reputations trashed or lose their jobs, simply for holding an "unacceptable" view.

But this is a topic for another thread.

 

[Silva_Spell]

Of course we do.

'The police can never be questioned' is your favourite policy to share.

Next...

Demonstrably false.