Germany's far right

PinkFinal said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Austria's far-right Freedom Party eyes unprecedented election win

Sunday's election could see Herbert Kickl's party top the polls for the first time.
www.bbc.co.uk
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That isn't Germany though?
The far right do seem to be getting up a head of steam across Europe though. Off the top of my head the UK, France, Germany, Hungary, Poland and now possibly Austria are all seeing right wing parties getting unusually large shares of the popular vote. I think some of the eastern European countries also have quite a significant issue with neo Nazis.
Not sure if it is really heading anywhere beyond a protest vote which will recede once better economic times return and we find some sort of commonsense approach to immigration.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
That isn't Germany though?
The far right do seem to be getting up a head of steam across Europe though. Off the top of my head the UK, France, Germany, Hungary, Poland and now possibly Austria are all seeing right wing parties getting unusually large shares of the popular vote. I think some of the eastern European countries also have quite a significant issue with neo Nazis.
Not sure if it is really heading anywhere beyond a protest vote which will recede once better economic times return and we find some sort of commonsense approach to immigration.
Click to expand...
Poland did vote out the PiS so there is progress, and if Trump is paying attention one of the main drivers was women’s rights. In former Communist countries the tendency seems to be go to the right from fear and hatred of Communism. Though some still cosy up to Putin it take Russian cash. Communist can also be easily be replaced with Russia.
 
The far right feed on economic hardship. As long as people keep losing financial security, the right step in to demonise the “others” as the problem. They aren’t. But hatred is the key motivator and they stoke that. They are always violent. That’s the playbook. Violence and easy solutions that aren’t ever easy, or solutions, get spewed out by utter vermin like Trump and every other Facist bastard.

They never go away, because hatred never goes away. And hatred is the fuel that feeds these types. Look at Trump stating, tiny balls out, that he will use the military to round up opposition. Calling anyone who doesn’t buy into him, as enemies of the state and people. Add into the mix that he is certainly the most moronic POTUS that has ever lived.

Thankfully we aren’t as thick up here. You won’t see massive demonstrations of the hard right. We don’t even vote in the Tories. They fill our **** quota without the BNP, Tommy Titface, Farage the **** and the rest of those utter pricks.
 
Magicpole said:
Thankfully we aren’t as thick up here. You won’t see massive demonstrations of the hard right. We don’t even vote in the Tories. They fill our **** quota without the BNP, Tommy Titface, Farage the **** and the rest of those utter pricks.
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That's true and it's good but you don't want to get complacent about it and indulge in "Scottish exceptionalism", look where that's got Britain (but mostly the English) as a whole recently ;-)

Politically the far right tends to brand itself as 'British' and I think the fact that lots of Scottish people identify as Scottish before anything else makes it easier to reject the likes of the BNP. Whether you agree with it or not, your own brand of 'nationalism' is (understandably) quite different from that down here and surveys show your social attitudes are more progressive too. So that's all to the good, but you've still got hate filled twats indulging in sectarianism around football and the like, so that's a warning to remain vigilant against people who want to stir up hatred for their own ends.
 
threespires said:
That's true and it's good but you don't want to get complacent about it and indulge in "Scottish exceptionalism", look where that's got Britain (but mostly the English) as a whole recently ;-)

Politically the far right tends to brand itself as 'British' and I think the fact that lots of Scottish people identify as Scottish before anything else makes it easier to reject the likes of the BNP. Whether you agree with it or not, your own brand of 'nationalism' is (understandably) quite different from that down here and surveys show your social attitudes are more progressive too. So that's all to the good, but you've still got hate filled twats indulging in sectarianism around football and the like, so that's a warning to remain vigilant against people who want to stir up hatred for their own ends.
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We have problems with sectarianism, but it’s nowhere near what it used to be when I was a boy. Still embarrassing, but that’s the way it is with fucking religion, as we see it playing out every night on our TV’s.

In our case, the battles over our different interpretations, of the different interpretations, of manuscripts, edited and re edited, that were all made up by unknown people, who didn’t know where the sun went at night, take place on a football pitch. Then set two’s in various locations across the region. I remember after games between us it was regular to have 300+ arrests. There’s about 25 now. Progress.

As a country, we are more left wing, there are far right cunts here too, but they are insignificant in numbers. Farage, et al, hold no sway here. There was no rioting here. None. No refugees were attacked, no mosques attacked. We voted 62% to remain in the EU, but where dragged into it by people drip fed on racism by the likes of the Hate Mail for years, to believe foreigners fuck them over, not the actual cunts, ie,them. English people seem to be more susceptible to that horseshit, will vote in the Tories monotonously, will see them fuck us up royally, vote Labour in to try and fix it, then vote the Tories back in, to fuck it all up again. How can they not see that voting for that mob, ain’t in their best self interests?

For us politically, going forward, I said to my mrs after the election results came in. Labour will fuck it all up, by not placing the cost of the Tory’s economic criminal negligence, where it belonged. The billionaires, the rich, those who could easily afford a bit more. No, he goes for the old. He cuts services that predominantly working class people need, social care, child benefit, winter fuels. If he continues avoiding taxing progressively, this will lead to the SNP wiping the floor with Labour in our next Holyrood election. Labour MP’s are following the three line Whip, to vote for things we Scots oppose. They are playing a dangerous and in my view fatal game. They keep placing the financial cost of gross negligence on people already fucked over, they will pay the price and tragically for us UK wide, that’s the Tories again. And on we go in a downward trajectory once again, leading to more blaming of immigrants, after all, it was they cunts who ruined the economy. Do you actually believe Liz Truss came up with that economic disaster? The one that baw hair wide, nearly fucked up our whole pension sector, until the BOE stuck up £50b, to put it round the post? It was Mo from Syria, wake up! He orchestrated the whole fucking jihadi Sharia thing, from his Mayfair Penthouse, given to him on arrival, his butler was driven over to No 10 by his chauffeur, in the Bentley, he chose instead of an Oyster Card, two zones. Everybody knows that. **** that he is.
 
Magicpole said:
We have problems with sectarianism, but it’s nowhere near what it used to be when I was a boy. Still embarrassing, but that’s the way it is with fucking religion, as we see it playing out every night on our TV’s.

In our case, the battles over our different interpretations, of the different interpretations, of manuscripts, edited and re edited, that were all made up by unknown people, who didn’t know where the sun went at night, take place on a football pitch. Then set two’s in various locations across the region. I remember after games between us it was regular to have 300+ arrests. There’s about 25 now. Progress.

As a country, we are more left wing, there are far right cunts here too, but they are insignificant in numbers. Farage, et al, hold no sway here. There was no rioting here. None. No refugees were attacked, no mosques attacked. We voted 62% to remain in the EU, but where dragged into it by people drip fed on racism by the likes of the Hate Mail for years, to believe foreigners fuck them over, not the actual cunts, ie,them. English people seem to be more susceptible to that horseshit, will vote in the Tories monotonously, will see them fuck us up royally, vote Labour in to try and fix it, then vote the Tories back in, to fuck it all up again. How can they not see that voting for that mob, ain’t in their best self interests?

For us politically, going forward, I said to my mrs after the election results came in. Labour will fuck it all up, by not placing the cost of the Tory’s economic criminal negligence, where it belonged. The billionaires, the rich, those who could easily afford a bit more. No, he goes for the old. He cuts services that predominantly working class people need, social care, child benefit, winter fuels. If he continues avoiding taxing progressively, this will lead to the SNP wiping the floor with Labour in our next Holyrood election. Labour MP’s are following the three line Whip, to vote for things we Scots oppose. They are playing a dangerous and in my view fatal game. They keep placing the financial cost of gross negligence on people already fucked over, they will pay the price and tragically for us UK wide, that’s the Tories again. And on we go in a downward trajectory once again, leading to more blaming of immigrants, after all, it was they cunts who ruined the economy. Do you actually believe Liz Truss came up with that economic disaster? The one that baw hair wide, nearly fucked up our whole pension sector, until the BOE stuck up £50b, to put it round the post? It was Mo from Syria, wake up! He orchestrated the whole fucking jihadi Sharia thing, from his Mayfair Penthouse, given to him on arrival, his butler was driven over to No 10 by his chauffeur, in the Bentley, he chose instead of an Oyster Card, two zones. Everybody knows that. **** that he is.
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At the risk of veering OT, I like your posts but you know you could be any random bod spreading misinformation so I thought I'd ask my trusty old mate chat GPT because he's never wrong and not at all dangerous. Seems the only difference between you and him is you swear a lot more so I had him have a second go with a bit more colour

First pass

The question of why English people might be more susceptible to right-wing propaganda compared to Scottish people is complex and involves a mix of historical, cultural, economic, and political factors. It’s important to approach this topic with nuance, as the susceptibility to political messaging is never uniform across an entire population, and both England and Scotland have diverse political landscapes.

1. Historical and Cultural Differences​

  • National Identity: Scotland has a distinct sense of national identity that is often tied to its history of struggle for autonomy and resistance against English dominance. This can influence a more collective mindset, which is less receptive to right-wing messages that focus on nationalism or a centralized state.
  • Social Democratic Tradition: Scotland has a stronger tradition of social democracy, which dates back to the influence of industrial workers, trade unions, and the Labour movement. Left-leaning political ideas are more deeply embedded in Scottish culture, creating an environment that is less favorable to right-wing propaganda.
  • Different Experiences of Thatcherism: The policies of Margaret Thatcher's government in the 1980s were particularly unpopular in Scotland, where they were seen as damaging to traditional industries like coal mining and manufacturing. The legacy of these policies is still a strong influence in Scottish politics, making right-wing economic policies less appealing.

2. Political Landscape​

  • Dominance of the Conservative Party in England: The Conservative Party has traditionally been more dominant in England than in Scotland. This means that right-wing ideas have more visibility and media support in England, potentially making them more normalized in English political discourse.
  • Rise of the SNP in Scotland: The Scottish National Party (SNP) has positioned itself as a progressive and social-democratic party, advocating for policies that are generally left-leaning and pro-European Union. The SNP’s dominance has made it harder for right-wing parties to gain a foothold in Scotland.
  • Brexit: Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU, while a majority in England voted to leave. This difference in voting patterns has widened the political gap, with the right-wing messages associated with Brexit resonating much more in England.

3. Media Influence​

  • Media Landscape: The media in the UK has a significant influence on shaping public opinion, and the majority of the national newspapers that have a conservative slant (like The Sun, The Daily Mail, and The Telegraph) are based in England. These papers have a strong presence in English society, but their influence is weaker in Scotland.
  • Regional Media: Scotland has a stronger presence of regional and local media outlets, some of which are more critical of right-wing policies. The existence of these outlets means that Scottish people are exposed to a broader range of political views.

4. Economic Factors​

  • Economic Inequality: Areas of England, particularly in the North and the Midlands, have experienced significant economic decline and inequality over the past few decades. Right-wing populist messages that focus on nationalism, anti-immigration rhetoric, and the promise of economic revival resonate with people who feel left behind by globalization and economic change.
  • Impact of Devolution: Scotland’s devolved government has more control over key policy areas like health, education, and social welfare. This allows for policies that are more progressive and locally responsive, which can make right-wing alternatives less appealing.

5. Immigration and Nationalism​

  • Different Views on Immigration: Right-wing propaganda often capitalizes on anti-immigrant sentiments, framing immigration as a threat to jobs, culture, and security. Surveys and studies have shown that attitudes toward immigration tend to be more negative in England compared to Scotland, possibly due to differences in cultural identity and nationalistic sentiments.
  • Civic Nationalism in Scotland: Scottish nationalism tends to be more civic and inclusive, focusing on shared values rather than ethnicity or culture. In contrast, English nationalism has, at times, been framed in more exclusive terms, appealing to ideas of English identity and tradition, which can be more easily aligned with right-wing rhetoric.

It was interesting but a bit worthy so I ask the same question but with a bit of swearing. Turn's out he's not as good at it as you...

Second pass

Alright, here’s the same answer with a bit of swearing thrown in to add some spice:

The question of why English folks might be more susceptible to right-wing propaganda compared to Scottish people is complicated as hell, wrapped up in a mess of historical, cultural, economic, and political factors. But let’s break it down without sugarcoating things.

1. Historical and Cultural Differences​

  • National Identity: Scotland has a massive chip on its shoulder about its national identity, mostly because it’s been dealing with English dominance for centuries. They’ve got this ingrained sense of sticking it to the man, which makes them way less likely to fall for right-wing crap that’s all about nationalism or centralizing power.
  • Social Democratic Tradition: Scotland’s got deep roots in social democracy. They’ve always been more about looking after each other rather than buying into the self-serving, every-man-for-himself ideology that right-wing propaganda loves to push.
  • Thatcher’s Shitshow: Margaret Thatcher’s policies in the 1980s were like a kick in the teeth for Scotland, wrecking traditional industries and basically flipping the bird to the working class. That left a lasting distrust for anything right-wing up north, while England had a bigger appetite for her market-driven madness.

2. Political Landscape​

  • The Tories’ Stronghold in England: England has long been a Conservative playground, where right-wing ideas aren’t just tolerated—they’re mainstream. They’ve got a whole infrastructure of support that normalizes their rhetoric and ideas.
  • SNP Dominance in Scotland: Meanwhile, the SNP has wiped the floor with the Tories in Scotland, pitching themselves as the progressive, pro-EU good guys. This has helped keep right-wing nutjobs from getting a proper foothold.
  • Brexit Madness: Let’s face it, Brexit is where England went full-on bananas for right-wing propaganda. England fell for the whole "take back control" nonsense, while Scotland, with its eye on the bigger picture, mostly told the Brexiteers to shove it.

3. Media Influence​

  • English Media’s Right-Wing Tilt: The UK media is full of right-wing bullhorns like The Sun and The Daily Mail, blasting their agenda on repeat. These papers are massive in England but don't have nearly as much pull in Scotland, where people are less likely to swallow their spin without question.
  • Regional Media Shield: Scotland’s local media is more skeptical of right-wing garbage, giving people up there a chance to hear a range of views instead of just being bombarded with one-sided nonsense.

4. Economic Factors​

  • Economic Inequality: England’s got whole regions that were gutted by deindustrialization and are still fuming about it. Right-wing populists have played these areas like a damn fiddle, promising to bring back jobs and prosperity while scapegoating immigrants and Brussels.
  • Impact of Devolution: Scotland’s got its own parliament, with more control over key policies that actually help people—like health, education, and welfare. That means they’ve got more progressive solutions that make the right-wing "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" crap look even more out of touch.

5. Immigration and Nationalism​

  • Anti-Immigrant Hysteria: Right-wing propaganda loves to whip up fear about immigrants "taking over," and that shit flies more easily in parts of England. Scotland, on the other hand, tends to be more chill about immigration and sees it as a benefit rather than a threat.
  • Civic Nationalism in Scotland: Scottish nationalism isn’t about blood and soil; it’s more about shared values and inclusivity. English nationalism has a history of being more exclusionary, which makes it a damn easy target for right-wing rhetoric.

6. Role of Political Parties and Movements​

  • Labour’s Collapse in England: Labour’s decline in England has left a gaping hole that’s been filled by right-wing and populist nutjobs. But in Scotland, the SNP has taken up that space, pushing left-leaning ideas that keep right-wingers out in the cold.
  • UKIP and the Brexit Circus: Parties like UKIP and the Brexit Party found way more success down in England than in Scotland, using anti-EU propaganda to rile people up. Scotland just wasn't buying their BS.

Conclusion​

So, to put it bluntly, the difference in susceptibility to right-wing propaganda between England and Scotland is one giant clusterf*ck of history, politics, media, and cultural attitudes. England’s more exposed to right-wing rhetoric because of its media circus and political leanings, while Scotland’s got a different vibe—a more progressive, collective mindset that tells right-wing blowhards where to shove it.

But hey, don’t get it twisted—there are plenty of folks in both places with a wide range of views. It’s not all black-and-white, but damn if there isn’t a noticeable trend.
 
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