Girl savaged to death by dogs in Manchester

[bluemc1]

Hi Rocket,

The analogy is a bit off, speed boats haven't evolved over thousands of years to hunt in packs and "catch and kill" dogs have. I understand that people love dogs, and to try and get past that is difficult. As a non-dog owner I can't differentiate between breeds types, good owners, bad owners. All I see are the deaths of children. There is no hysteria, which I struggle to see in any of my previous post, just a simple question, as dogs owners, what are you going to do to stop this. The same way as the Americans are asking how to stop mass murdering ejits from running riot in their schools.

edit, what is a number of acceptable attacks?

The Hysteria, was n't a reference to your post in particular just the general media response to dog attacks. However, you deny hysteria then make reference to Sandy Hook, columbine style massacres, do you not see the irony?

Please, elaborate on the point in bold; Americans are calling for many different things, full ban on gun ownership, a ban on most powerful weapons. The second point was already done somewhat in terms of banning Pitbulls and three other types of dog of rare UK ownership, and it was only done for political ends.

You seem to have taken the viewpoint that no level of harm, or deaths are acceptable, that though somewhat admirable is utopian and naive. What is the acceptable level of harm, deaths caused by road traffic incidents, nobody is calling for a rethink or ban on car ownership.

You said my analogy is a bit off, yet you make reference to guns, they only have one purpose, to threaten, or cause personal injury or death. Most dogs are not used for this behaviour, death can be a consequence of negligence in terms of letting something under your responsibility become out of control, this can be taken to mean a wide range of things.

Dogs in their previous incarnation as a wolf are far removed from the actual pets of today, in a wolf pack aggressive behaviour and dominance may lead to higher status, in a human controlled environment that sort of behaviour is weeded out by breeding practices or resolved by re-training or destroying the dog. All dogs can cause harm, however most are not dangerous.

I will use my analogy of motor vehicles again, dangerous, un-roadworthy and illegal cars are taken off the road. However, all cars can cause harm in the right/ wrong circumstances;what you seem to be proposing is no different than a hysterical overreaction to motor vehicle accidents prompting a complete ban on car ownership. If you can't see why that would be wrong or a gross overreaction, then I really can't help you anymore.

I'm going to try and get both responses into one so bear with me.

I do fail to see the irony, comparing a mass shooting and dog attacks is valid and in no way hysterical. If I were to prefer the status quo then yes I would also propose the reaction hysterical, but I don't. People are dead that shouldn't be, I agree that there are many causes of this, but the thread is about dogs, not heaters in tents et. al.

It appears to me from the outside looking in that as dog owners/lovers you have the most to loose from dog control. Legislation would be imposed by a government that as you state has got in wrong once in the past, so whats to say they won;t get it wrong again. I have likened American gun control to dogs because as far as I can tell its very similar. You have one group who enjoy freedom and liberty when it comes to guns, and one that would prefer them banned. All the while more shooting s go on, I understand there has been another one this afternoon, not that I can mention this without being labeled hysterical.

As for being utopian and naive, you may say I'm a dreamer......

If we were to cease all transportation by car/van/lorry right now, we would slowly starve. If we removed all dogs into limbo, we would have some pissed of people, so again they are not really the same.

I make reference to guns, because they scare me. The fact the police have them terrifies me. I can;t really say the same about dogs because I don;t "know" them. I am more than happy to be corrected, but whilst we go about trying to explain away the consequence of them/their owners/their breeding as an acceptable by product of peoples enjoyment I am struggling, and as you suggest, you may not be able to help.

Please understand that I am in no way trying to ban dogs, there are few things in this world funnier than a dog in a car with its head out of the window. I understand the appeal of the loyalty and a mans best friend etc. I am trying not to be a WUM and cause argument for argument sake. This place can be a zoo at times and doe's not appear to have calmed down in the time I've been away, but sincerely, I'm asking questions without an agenda, venom and most of all hysteria.

Stan

"my tea has gone cold im wondering why i got out of bed at all.........................

 

[MCFC-alan88]

Stanley, it's not quite as black and white as these two:

It appears to me from the outside looking in that as dog owners/lovers you have the most to loose from dog control.

You have one group who enjoy freedom and liberty when it comes to guns, and one that would prefer them banned.

I am all for dog control, and for most of us who are just normal pet owners it will have very little effect, granted there will be good people who have these breeds that can have "vicious tendencies" but you can tell straight off (if you know dogs, I realise this is a problem to some) what kind of temperament an animal has.

I think rational people realise there is a huge problem regarding bad people with aggressive dogs, but these are the kind of people that would find other available means to instil fear if the dogs became unavailable. For all intents and purposes, the dog is an instrument.

 

[mackenzie]

Any dog has the capacity for inflicting pain or death. To think otherwise is arrogant.

 

[MCFC-alan88]

Any dog has the capacity for inflicting pain or death. To think otherwise is arrogant.

So do humans, your point is?

 

[Rocket-footed kolarov]

Any dog has the capacity for inflicting pain or death. To think otherwise is arrogant.

Your spot on, however we all know that certain types of dog are more prone to a certain type of reaction if not properly socialised, trained etc. In a lot of these incidents the incident occurs when a dog is left unattended with a young child.

This should never be allowed to happen because you just can't trust a dog alone with a child, and children of a certain age can't be trusted to behave properly around dogs i.e. not winding it up by kicking or hitting it, or even just innocently touching a sore are.

In the incident that prompted this thread there were a number of large powerful dogs in a small house; you should n't have that number of dogs in a small house even if they are smaller and less powerful because it isn't the right environment to keep them in and give each one the care they deserve and it often creates a nuisance in terms of noise pollution etc.