Rascal said:So these two young kids who were arrested are muslim?
101toMR said:worsleyweb said:Common sense that will be proved misguided when i come on with facts and data later. To suggest that there is not an issue within the Muslim community with child grooming is an utter nonsense. Esteemed members of the Muslim community recognise that it is an issue in their communities
Awaits lefty calling me a bigot or racist.
You wont hear me calling you anything like that.
There is a problem and NOT talking about it isn't going to solve it.
M18CTID said:Bigga said:M18CTID said:It's astonishing how certain members of this forum have conveniently forgotten the huge furore surrounding paedophile Catholic priests in order to play the race card when the subject of Muslim paedo, oops sorry "grooming gangs", comes up.
What's "astonishing" is people cannot read a whole post and place it in context. So, they take a sound bite and make a whole inappropriate verse about it.
So, let's try again, shall we...?
No matter what, of late, there seems to be some reference towards Islam in some bad connotation. There are just as many evil Christians acting in the will of its faith, but they don't make headlines for the sustained period than when an Islamic nut case does something.
So, if you can be arsed separating the words 'Muslim' from Paedo/ Grooming, you will find the truth in my original post that people of similar background will group together on certain things. The fact that they were Muslim, in these particular cases, does NOT separate them from other disgusting paedos that pray on our kids.
Paedos are fooking paedos.
Get that through your thick skulls.
Oh, calm down you fooking tart! Everyone knows that nonces exist in all walks of life and it isn't just a "Muslim-specific" problem. My issue is that politically correct lemons such as yourself express far more outrage about references to paedos amongst parts of the Muslim community than they would if someone started having a pop at paedo priests in the Catholic church for example. You think that anyone dares bring the subject up automatically makes them a racist and a bigot. Well, I've got news for you - one of the posters on here, blueinsa, is a traditional Labour voter yet he has posted on this very thread that there is an issue amongst certain members of the Muslim community and grooming/paedophilia. He also made a very good point that these people don't target anyone from their own community, choosing instead to focus on white kids. Are you going to call him out as a racist as well?
foetus said:Technically incorrect if you look at the definition of a paedoBigga said:Paedos are fooking paedos.
worsleyweb said:Some data -
A study of grooming gangs has identified that 52 groups where ethnicity data was provided 26 were comprised of all Asian offenders (50 percent), 11 percent were all white (21 percent) and 9 percent had offenders from multiple ethnicities. 2 groups (4 perecent) were exclusively Arab groups.
Of the 306 offenders whose ethnicity was noted, 75 percent were categorised as Asian, 17 percent white and the remaining 8 percent black and 3 percent Arab.
97 percent of victims in the above samples were white.
The 27 court cases led to the convictions of 92 men. Some 79 (87 percent) were reported as being of South Asian Muslim origin.
So despite the fact that Muslims are a minority group that make up 7% of the population they overwhelmingly dominate rape and child abuse statistics.
And I quote one of our LWNJs;
So, if you can be arsed separating the words 'Muslim' from Paedo/ Grooming, you will find the truth in my original post that people of similar background will group together on certain things. The fact that they were Muslim, in these particular cases, does NOT separate them from other disgusting paedos that pray on our kids.
Paedos are fooking paedos.
Get that through your thick skulls.
I think we should look further into cultural issues that exist in some aspects of the Muslim community rather than simply label people as racists and RWNJ. I will repeat significant numbers the Muslim community recognise the extent of this problem and some young Muslim men's views on young white women as an issue.
Ijaz, a bus conductor in his early twenties, spends his days travelling through the bustling streets of Peshawar in northern Pakistan, working hard to scrape a living.
The pay is low and the hours are long, and Ijaz, like many of his colleagues, remains unwed and has no family.
Instead of going home come nightfall, he, and many others, spend their time with street children, paying them as little as 75p for sex and when they have no money, brutally abusing them.
But the children falling prey to these men aren't the ones you might expect. With girls kept at home by their parents, the majority of victims are boys - some as young as six years old.
'Once, there was a boy on the bus and everyone had sex with him,' confesses Ijaz who admits to raping 12 different children during his career as a bus conductor.
'I did it too but what else could I do? They invited me. And he was that kind of boy anyway.'
Sexual abuse in Pakistan is rife. An estimated four million children in the country are forced into work from an early age due to poverty and of those, more than a million live on the streets where they are easy prey for men like Ijaz.
A recent survey of 1,800 men found that a third believe that not only is raping little boys not a crime, it's not even a bad thing to do.
As a result, an estimated 90 per cent of street children have been victims of sexual abuse at some point in their lives.
One such boy is Naeem, 13, who has been on the streets, off and on, since running away from his violent brother who repeatedly beat him following their parents' death. He was eight at the time.
His world is one of drugs and violence. He talks casually of a street where you'll find 'all the paedos'.
He is addicted to heroin and regularly abuses his own fragile body, cutting and stabbing himself in an attempt to deal with his anger.
Although he has sold himself to pay for drugs, he also tells, with tears in his eyes, of a time when he was attacked by a gang of men.
'I was lying here sleeping and four people grabbed me and threw me into a car,' he sobs. 'One was a bus driver, the others were heroin addicts. All four of them raped me.'
Many of Pakistan's abusers are bus drivers. One man who knows this all too well is Hassan Deen, an entrepreneur who rents beds - and sometimes boys - to drivers at Peshawar's largest bus depot.
'A bus driver rents a bed from me and he says he'll pay an extra 50 (50p) or 100 rupees (£1) if I can get him a boy,' explains Mr Deen.
'There's often a kid wandering the streets alone. We tell these boys we'll provide food and shelter if they come with us. That's how we lure them in.'
Others, addicted to the cheap heroin that pours across the border from neighbouring Afghanistan, will have sex with these men for a price.
'If I don't make enough money picking trash, I sell my body,' admits Naeen. 'The first time I sold myself, I didn't have any money.
'So I did it three times with a man and in return, he gave me 3,000 rupees (£17). I was eight and a half. I was little.
'The first time I did it, I hadn't eaten for two to three days. Afterwards, I cried all night, asking myself, "What have I done?" I did this to myself to make some money.'
And Naeen isn't alone. Another street child, nine-year-old Akeeb has also been approached by men on the street but has so far managed to escape.
'I don't get scared if I have a friend with me,' he says. 'I get bothered a lot by the bus driver, the van driver. They tell me to climb on the roof of the bus and do bad things with them. Sometimes they offer me a soft drink in return.'
Unsurprisingly, the impact of this abuse on the children is severe. Along with psychological problems, a Save the Children report showed that as many as one in 10 are murdered by the men who abuse them.
Others go on to become abusers themselves, among them 13-year-old Naeem. 'There was a boy, about 10 or 11,' he confesses, shame-faced.
'I took him to the cinema and spent money on him and he was OK with it. But when we left the cinema, he said he didn't want to do it anymore so then I grabbed his hand and forced him.'
Although there are laws in place to protect children, police rarely bother themselves with the plight of the street children, with many saying that the ever-present threat of Taliban bombs trumps saving small boys.
One man who might be able to help is politician Imran Khan.
'It's one of the most sad and shameful aspects of our society,' he says. 'I'm totally embarrassed by this. It's really shameful for us that we have not been able to protect them.'
For now, boys like Naeem continue to fall victim to predatory paedophiles like serial rapist Ijaz, a man who claims to want a 'good woman' for a wife one day and children of his own.
'I'm going to look for a good wife who's read the Quran and prays,' he says. 'A good, respectable woman. Religion is very important because I'm Muslim.'
That, however, hasn't stopped him from attacking boys. 'What can we do?,' he whines. 'We know it's totally against Islam. God doesn't like it. But we're helpless against our desire.'
Bigga said:101toMR said:worsleyweb said:Common sense that will be proved misguided when i come on with facts and data later. To suggest that there is not an issue within the Muslim community with child grooming is an utter nonsense. Esteemed members of the Muslim community recognise that it is an issue in their communities
Awaits lefty calling me a bigot or racist.
You wont hear me calling you anything like that.
There is a problem and NOT talking about it isn't going to solve it.
So, there's a problem in the Muslim community that's any different to anywhere else that has a problem with adults interested in children??
M18CTID said:Bigga said:What's "astonishing" is people cannot read a whole post and place it in context. So, they take a sound bite and make a whole inappropriate verse about it.
So, let's try again, shall we...?
No matter what, of late, there seems to be some reference towards Islam in some bad connotation. There are just as many evil Christians acting in the will of its faith, but they don't make headlines for the sustained period than when an Islamic nut case does something.
So, if you can be arsed separating the words 'Muslim' from Paedo/ Grooming, you will find the truth in my original post that people of similar background will group together on certain things. The fact that they were Muslim, in these particular cases, does NOT separate them from other disgusting paedos that pray on our kids.
Paedos are fooking paedos.
Get that through your thick skulls.
Oh, calm down you fooking tart! Everyone knows that nonces exist in all walks of life and it isn't just a "Muslim-specific" problem. My issue is that politically correct lemons such as yourself express far more outrage about references to paedos amongst parts of the Muslim community than they would if someone started having a pop at paedo priests in the Catholic church for example. You think that anyone dares bring the subject up automatically makes them a racist and a bigot. Well, I've got news for you - one of the posters on here, blueinsa, is a traditional Labour voter yet he has posted on this very thread that there is an issue amongst certain members of the Muslim community and grooming/paedophilia. He also made a very good point that these people don't target anyone from their own community, choosing instead to focus on white kids. Are you going to call him out as a racist as well?
You're an idiot.
You don't seem to understand that the only difference here is a religion than any extraordinary factor. They ARE ALL SCUMBAGS and I don't differentiate paedos by colour or creed like you nut jobs are trying to justify!!
foetus said:Technically incorrect if you look at the definition of a paedoBigga said:Paedos are fooking paedos.
Well, surprise us all with the ACTUAL definition, genius...
worsleyweb said:Some data -
A study of grooming gangs has identified that 52 groups where ethnicity data was provided 26 were comprised of all Asian offenders (50 percent), 11 percent were all white (21 percent) and 9 percent had offenders from multiple ethnicities. 2 groups (4 perecent) were exclusively Arab groups.
Of the 306 offenders whose ethnicity was noted, 75 percent were categorised as Asian, 17 percent white and the remaining 8 percent black and 3 percent Arab.
97 percent of victims in the above samples were white.
The 27 court cases led to the convictions of 92 men. Some 79 (87 percent) were reported as being of South Asian Muslim origin.
So despite the fact that Muslims are a minority group that make up 7% of the population they overwhelmingly dominate rape and child abuse statistics.
And I quote one of our LWNJs;
So, if you can be arsed separating the words 'Muslim' from Paedo/ Grooming, you will find the truth in my original post that people of similar background will group together on certain things. The fact that they were Muslim, in these particular cases, does NOT separate them from other disgusting paedos that pray on our kids.
Paedos are fooking paedos.
Get that through your thick skulls.
I think we should look further into cultural issues that exist in some aspects of the Muslim community rather than simply label people as racists and RWNJ. I will repeat significant numbers the Muslim community recognise the extent of this problem and some young Muslim men's views on young white women as an issue.
The issue is not the mainstay of this country and a pick of White girls. The issue is weak minded adults(men really) and a constant battle with a sexually repressive religion where it is constantly wrong to look at or think about something that is natural in Human Beings and therefore, I believe it manifests itself in extreme ways... IN MY OPINION.
Paedophilia is rife in Pakistan and the victims are mostly street urchins nobody seems to give a sh*t about:
Ijaz, a bus conductor in his early twenties, spends his days travelling through the bustling streets of Peshawar in northern Pakistan, working hard to scrape a living.
The pay is low and the hours are long, and Ijaz, like many of his colleagues, remains unwed and has no family.
Instead of going home come nightfall, he, and many others, spend their time with street children, paying them as little as 75p for sex and when they have no money, brutally abusing them.
But the children falling prey to these men aren't the ones you might expect. With girls kept at home by their parents, the majority of victims are boys - some as young as six years old.
'Once, there was a boy on the bus and everyone had sex with him,' confesses Ijaz who admits to raping 12 different children during his career as a bus conductor.
'I did it too but what else could I do? They invited me. And he was that kind of boy anyway.'
Sexual abuse in Pakistan is rife. An estimated four million children in the country are forced into work from an early age due to poverty and of those, more than a million live on the streets where they are easy prey for men like Ijaz.
A recent survey of 1,800 men found that a third believe that not only is raping little boys not a crime, it's not even a bad thing to do.
As a result, an estimated 90 per cent of street children have been victims of sexual abuse at some point in their lives.
One such boy is Naeem, 13, who has been on the streets, off and on, since running away from his violent brother who repeatedly beat him following their parents' death. He was eight at the time.
His world is one of drugs and violence. He talks casually of a street where you'll find 'all the paedos'.
He is addicted to heroin and regularly abuses his own fragile body, cutting and stabbing himself in an attempt to deal with his anger.
Although he has sold himself to pay for drugs, he also tells, with tears in his eyes, of a time when he was attacked by a gang of men.
'I was lying here sleeping and four people grabbed me and threw me into a car,' he sobs. 'One was a bus driver, the others were heroin addicts. All four of them raped me.'
Many of Pakistan's abusers are bus drivers. One man who knows this all too well is Hassan Deen, an entrepreneur who rents beds - and sometimes boys - to drivers at Peshawar's largest bus depot.
'A bus driver rents a bed from me and he says he'll pay an extra 50 (50p) or 100 rupees (£1) if I can get him a boy,' explains Mr Deen.
'There's often a kid wandering the streets alone. We tell these boys we'll provide food and shelter if they come with us. That's how we lure them in.'
Others, addicted to the cheap heroin that pours across the border from neighbouring Afghanistan, will have sex with these men for a price.
'If I don't make enough money picking trash, I sell my body,' admits Naeen. 'The first time I sold myself, I didn't have any money.
'So I did it three times with a man and in return, he gave me 3,000 rupees (£17). I was eight and a half. I was little.
'The first time I did it, I hadn't eaten for two to three days. Afterwards, I cried all night, asking myself, "What have I done?" I did this to myself to make some money.'
And Naeen isn't alone. Another street child, nine-year-old Akeeb has also been approached by men on the street but has so far managed to escape.
'I don't get scared if I have a friend with me,' he says. 'I get bothered a lot by the bus driver, the van driver. They tell me to climb on the roof of the bus and do bad things with them. Sometimes they offer me a soft drink in return.'
Unsurprisingly, the impact of this abuse on the children is severe. Along with psychological problems, a Save the Children report showed that as many as one in 10 are murdered by the men who abuse them.
Others go on to become abusers themselves, among them 13-year-old Naeem. 'There was a boy, about 10 or 11,' he confesses, shame-faced.
'I took him to the cinema and spent money on him and he was OK with it. But when we left the cinema, he said he didn't want to do it anymore so then I grabbed his hand and forced him.'
Although there are laws in place to protect children, police rarely bother themselves with the plight of the street children, with many saying that the ever-present threat of Taliban bombs trumps saving small boys.
One man who might be able to help is politician Imran Khan.
'It's one of the most sad and shameful aspects of our society,' he says. 'I'm totally embarrassed by this. It's really shameful for us that we have not been able to protect them.'
For now, boys like Naeem continue to fall victim to predatory paedophiles like serial rapist Ijaz, a man who claims to want a 'good woman' for a wife one day and children of his own.
'I'm going to look for a good wife who's read the Quran and prays,' he says. 'A good, respectable woman. Religion is very important because I'm Muslim.'
That, however, hasn't stopped him from attacking boys. 'What can we do?,' he whines. 'We know it's totally against Islam. God doesn't like it. But we're helpless against our desire.'
So, you can pretty much put away this angle that it is Muslims against White girls. These people would do it anywhere they happened to live, in my opinion, where there where 'abandoned' children regardless of colour if they could get away with it.
That continues to make them evil paedophiles above anything else. THAT is why I can separate colour and creed unlike many many others on here.
101toMR said:What has child abuse in Pakistan got to do with Pakistani grooming gangs in mill towns?
Straw arguments do not prove points.
Has anyone actually read the link?
worsleyweb said:101toMR said:What has child abuse in Pakistan got to do with Pakistani grooming gangs in mill towns?
Straw arguments do not prove points.
Has anyone actually read the link?
I think he has had a breakdown??
Bigga - I will make this simple for you and Ealing Blue - is it not a concern the information in the link? Can you answer the specifics and not some random tangent again?
Bigga said:Yeah, I'm done.
I keep telling myself that you can't argue with blind idiots on certain issues and yet I continue down the same path. I'm arguing against idiots who continue to think that there are differences in paedophilia/ grooming for different sections of society.
Man, you keep sipping on that Crusader's Cup.
Bigga said:101toMR said:worsleyweb said:Common sense that will be proved misguided when i come on with facts and data later. To suggest that there is not an issue within the Muslim community with child grooming is an utter nonsense. Esteemed members of the Muslim community recognise that it is an issue in their communities
Awaits lefty calling me a bigot or racist.
You wont hear me calling you anything like that.
There is a problem and NOT talking about it isn't going to solve it.
So, there's a problem in the Muslim community that's any different to anywhere else that has a problem with adults interested in children??
M18CTID said:Bigga said:What's "astonishing" is people cannot read a whole post and place it in context. So, they take a sound bite and make a whole inappropriate verse about it.
So, let's try again, shall we...?
No matter what, of late, there seems to be some reference towards Islam in some bad connotation. There are just as many evil Christians acting in the will of its faith, but they don't make headlines for the sustained period than when an Islamic nut case does something.
So, if you can be arsed separating the words 'Muslim' from Paedo/ Grooming, you will find the truth in my original post that people of similar background will group together on certain things. The fact that they were Muslim, in these particular cases, does NOT separate them from other disgusting paedos that pray on our kids.
Paedos are fooking paedos.
Get that through your thick skulls.
Oh, calm down you fooking tart! Everyone knows that nonces exist in all walks of life and it isn't just a "Muslim-specific" problem. My issue is that politically correct lemons such as yourself express far more outrage about references to paedos amongst parts of the Muslim community than they would if someone started having a pop at paedo priests in the Catholic church for example. You think that anyone dares bring the subject up automatically makes them a racist and a bigot. Well, I've got news for you - one of the posters on here, blueinsa, is a traditional Labour voter yet he has posted on this very thread that there is an issue amongst certain members of the Muslim community and grooming/paedophilia. He also made a very good point that these people don't target anyone from their own community, choosing instead to focus on white kids. Are you going to call him out as a racist as well?
You're an idiot.
You don't seem to understand that the only difference here is a religion than any extraordinary factor. They ARE ALL SCUMBAGS and I don't differentiate paedos by colour or creed like you nut jobs are trying to justify!!
foetus said:Technically incorrect if you look at the definition of a paedoBigga said:Paedos are fooking paedos.
Well, surprise us all with the ACTUAL definition, genius...
worsleyweb said:Some data -
A study of grooming gangs has identified that 52 groups where ethnicity data was provided 26 were comprised of all Asian offenders (50 percent), 11 percent were all white (21 percent) and 9 percent had offenders from multiple ethnicities. 2 groups (4 perecent) were exclusively Arab groups.
Of the 306 offenders whose ethnicity was noted, 75 percent were categorised as Asian, 17 percent white and the remaining 8 percent black and 3 percent Arab.
97 percent of victims in the above samples were white.
The 27 court cases led to the convictions of 92 men. Some 79 (87 percent) were reported as being of South Asian Muslim origin.
So despite the fact that Muslims are a minority group that make up 7% of the population they overwhelmingly dominate rape and child abuse statistics.
And I quote one of our LWNJs;
So, if you can be arsed separating the words 'Muslim' from Paedo/ Grooming, you will find the truth in my original post that people of similar background will group together on certain things. The fact that they were Muslim, in these particular cases, does NOT separate them from other disgusting paedos that pray on our kids.
Paedos are fooking paedos.
Get that through your thick skulls.
I think we should look further into cultural issues that exist in some aspects of the Muslim community rather than simply label people as racists and RWNJ. I will repeat significant numbers the Muslim community recognise the extent of this problem and some young Muslim men's views on young white women as an issue.
The issue is not the mainstay of this country and a pick of White girls. The issue is weak minded adults(men really) and a constant battle with a sexually repressive religion where it is constantly wrong to look at or think about something that is natural in Human Beings and therefore, I believe it manifests itself in extreme ways... IN MY OPINION.
Paedophilia is rife in Pakistan and the victims are mostly street urchins nobody seems to give a sh*t about:
Ijaz, a bus conductor in his early twenties, spends his days travelling through the bustling streets of Peshawar in northern Pakistan, working hard to scrape a living.
The pay is low and the hours are long, and Ijaz, like many of his colleagues, remains unwed and has no family.
Instead of going home come nightfall, he, and many others, spend their time with street children, paying them as little as 75p for sex and when they have no money, brutally abusing them.
But the children falling prey to these men aren't the ones you might expect. With girls kept at home by their parents, the majority of victims are boys - some as young as six years old.
'Once, there was a boy on the bus and everyone had sex with him,' confesses Ijaz who admits to raping 12 different children during his career as a bus conductor.
'I did it too but what else could I do? They invited me. And he was that kind of boy anyway.'
Sexual abuse in Pakistan is rife. An estimated four million children in the country are forced into work from an early age due to poverty and of those, more than a million live on the streets where they are easy prey for men like Ijaz.
A recent survey of 1,800 men found that a third believe that not only is raping little boys not a crime, it's not even a bad thing to do.
As a result, an estimated 90 per cent of street children have been victims of sexual abuse at some point in their lives.
One such boy is Naeem, 13, who has been on the streets, off and on, since running away from his violent brother who repeatedly beat him following their parents' death. He was eight at the time.
His world is one of drugs and violence. He talks casually of a street where you'll find 'all the paedos'.
He is addicted to heroin and regularly abuses his own fragile body, cutting and stabbing himself in an attempt to deal with his anger.
Although he has sold himself to pay for drugs, he also tells, with tears in his eyes, of a time when he was attacked by a gang of men.
'I was lying here sleeping and four people grabbed me and threw me into a car,' he sobs. 'One was a bus driver, the others were heroin addicts. All four of them raped me.'
Many of Pakistan's abusers are bus drivers. One man who knows this all too well is Hassan Deen, an entrepreneur who rents beds - and sometimes boys - to drivers at Peshawar's largest bus depot.
'A bus driver rents a bed from me and he says he'll pay an extra 50 (50p) or 100 rupees (£1) if I can get him a boy,' explains Mr Deen.
'There's often a kid wandering the streets alone. We tell these boys we'll provide food and shelter if they come with us. That's how we lure them in.'
Others, addicted to the cheap heroin that pours across the border from neighbouring Afghanistan, will have sex with these men for a price.
'If I don't make enough money picking trash, I sell my body,' admits Naeen. 'The first time I sold myself, I didn't have any money.
'So I did it three times with a man and in return, he gave me 3,000 rupees (£17). I was eight and a half. I was little.
'The first time I did it, I hadn't eaten for two to three days. Afterwards, I cried all night, asking myself, "What have I done?" I did this to myself to make some money.'
And Naeen isn't alone. Another street child, nine-year-old Akeeb has also been approached by men on the street but has so far managed to escape.
'I don't get scared if I have a friend with me,' he says. 'I get bothered a lot by the bus driver, the van driver. They tell me to climb on the roof of the bus and do bad things with them. Sometimes they offer me a soft drink in return.'
Unsurprisingly, the impact of this abuse on the children is severe. Along with psychological problems, a Save the Children report showed that as many as one in 10 are murdered by the men who abuse them.
Others go on to become abusers themselves, among them 13-year-old Naeem. 'There was a boy, about 10 or 11,' he confesses, shame-faced.
'I took him to the cinema and spent money on him and he was OK with it. But when we left the cinema, he said he didn't want to do it anymore so then I grabbed his hand and forced him.'
Although there are laws in place to protect children, police rarely bother themselves with the plight of the street children, with many saying that the ever-present threat of Taliban bombs trumps saving small boys.
One man who might be able to help is politician Imran Khan.
'It's one of the most sad and shameful aspects of our society,' he says. 'I'm totally embarrassed by this. It's really shameful for us that we have not been able to protect them.'
For now, boys like Naeem continue to fall victim to predatory paedophiles like serial rapist Ijaz, a man who claims to want a 'good woman' for a wife one day and children of his own.
'I'm going to look for a good wife who's read the Quran and prays,' he says. 'A good, respectable woman. Religion is very important because I'm Muslim.'
That, however, hasn't stopped him from attacking boys. 'What can we do?,' he whines. 'We know it's totally against Islam. God doesn't like it. But we're helpless against our desire.'
So, you can pretty much put away this angle that it is Muslims against White girls. These people would do it anywhere they happened to live, in my opinion, where there where 'abandoned' children regardless of colour if they could get away with it.
That continues to make them evil paedophiles above anything else. THAT is why I can separate colour and creed unlike many many others on here.
Tanzeylee said:So you're saying there IS a problem with Pakistani Muslims abusing young children, whether it be in their own country or anywhere?...