Gordon McQueen

[Mancity1980]

When did the ball change to the more waterproof light version? Was Gordon McQueen heading the older leather balls? If not this is a real concern because it may mean there are a lot more damaged ex-players out there than we first thought.

 

[Academica]

It has been said that McQueen used to stay behind after training just practicing headers, can't see players doing that now. Must do damage to the brain constantly heading the ball, they were talking last week (on talk shite) about trying balls that were softer. Early days and they said trials have not been carried out yet with pro footballers to see how it affects the flight of the ball. I think it is only a matter of time before some change is made, the sooner the better. All the best to Gordon and his family.

 

[Saddleworth2]

If there's a real problem,

I think just taking the England world cup winning side as an example, at least 5 have died of it/been diagnosed. Its a real and significant issue that insufficient attention and research has been pointed at. The PFA have been negligent in looking after their members interests and research is no further ahead despite some well publicised cases, like Jeff Astle. I believe it will lead to law changes in the game from kids up to professionals.

 

[Sky Blue Thinking]

Sad news, a cruel illness, wish him and his family well at this time.

 

[NorCalBlue]

I think just taking the England world cup winning side as an example, at least 5 have died of it/been diagnosed. Its a real and significant issue that insufficient attention and research has been pointed at. The PFA have been negligent in looking after their members interests and research is no further ahead despite some well publicised cases, like Jeff Astle. I believe it will lead to law changes in the game from kids up to professionals.

I completely agree with "insufficient attention and research has been pointed at" this , and I suspect you're right that "Its a real and significant issue", but I'm wary of using the England WC winning team as evidence without knowing what the rate is in the general population, and what the rate is among other teams of the same era.

Is 5/11 in one team an outlier (like you sometimes get random clusters of cancer cases) or is it the same if you look as closely at any team from the 60s? Is 5/11 especially high for the general population in the same age-group?

The detailed post-mortem brain studies seem to be currently focused on athletes who are expected to have impact-related brain injury - and a lot of of damage is being found - but what do the brains of non-athletes of the same age look like? Or athletes in other sports?

However, as I said in my previous post, asking for more evidence isn't just an attempt to ignore the problem (even though this is a common tactic amongst climate-change deniers and the like) and I support assuming the worst and protecting people (especially kids) until we know what the dangers really are.

Ultimately I don't think I'd miss heading the ball if it was banned. It'd obviously lead to a big change in the way the game's played, just like when the offside and backpass rules came in, but once everyone adjusted, I think you'd see a bigger emphasis on passing, teamwork, and individual skill, which, as City fans, would only be a good thing for us.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I completely agree with "insufficient attention and research has been pointed at" this , and I suspect you're right that "Its a real and significant issue", but I'm wary of using the England WC winning team as evidence without knowing what the rate is in the general population, and what the rate is among other teams of the same era.

Is 5/11 in one team an outlier (like you sometimes get random clusters of cancer cases) or is it the same if you look as closely at any team from the 60s? Is 5/11 especially high for the general population in the same age-group?

The detailed post-mortem brain studies seem to be currently focused on athletes who are expected to have impact-related brain injury - and a lot of of damage is being found - but what do the brains of non-athletes of the same age look like? Or athletes in other sports?

However, as I said in my previous post, asking for more evidence isn't just an attempt to ignore the problem (even though this is a common tactic amongst climate-change deniers and the like) and I support assuming the worst and protecting people (especially kids) until we know what the dangers really are.

Ultimately I don't think I'd miss heading the ball if it was banned. It'd obviously lead to a big change in the way the game's played, just like when the offside and backpass rules came in, but once everyone adjusted, I think you'd see a bigger emphasis on passing, teamwork, and individual skill, which, as City fans, would only be a good thing for us.

This is the best article I could find. The study by Glasgow University suggests professional footballers 3.5 times more likely to suffer than general public. As you will see though, much more work to be done.

Football and dementia risk - is there a link?

News that professional footballers might be at a greater risk of dementia, and why that might be the case, has been the subject of great debate and interest. Our researchers examine the latest evidence around heading the ball and discuss what we know so far.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[PinkFinal]

Frankly people who were footballers, especially defenders and forwards, will be lucky to avoid developing this awful illness.
I very much fear getting it myself

 

[horlock_was_super]

My younger brother was hit by a drunk driver a couple of weeks before Christmas in 1979 and ended up seriously injured and spent weeks in Pendlebury Children’s hospital. As it was that time of the year the ward was visited by Gordon McQueen and Joe Jordan handing out gifts. My brother was completely out of it and my Mum was by his bedside as much as was allowed. They approached his bed and asked my Mum a lot of questions regarding my brother. Really took time out and signed a ball for him, my Mum told him that we were all City and they both just smiled and shrugged. My Mum hated United to her dying day, but, would never hear a bad word against these two. Think she hid a secret flame for Mr Jordan actually. Nobody should have to watch a loved one go through this horrific illness my heart goes out to any family who have to face it, both my Mum and brother both died in their fifties so this news has got me thinking of them. Bloody hell.

 

[salford blue 62]

My younger brother was hit by a drunk driver a couple of weeks before Christmas in 1979 and ended up seriously injured and spent weeks in Pendlebury Children’s hospital. As it was that time of the year the ward was visited by Gordon McQueen and Joe Jordan handing out gifts. My brother was completely out of it and my Mum was by his bedside as much as was allowed. They approached his bed and asked my Mum a lot of questions regarding my brother. Really took time out and signed a ball for him, my Mum told him that we were all City and they both just smiled and shrugged. My Mum hated United to her dying day, but, would never hear a bad word against these two. Think she hid a secret flame for Mr Jordan actually. Nobody should have to watch a loved one go through this horrific illness my heart goes out to any family who have to face it, both my Mum and brother both died in their fifties so this news has got me thinking of them. Bloody hell.

Lovely and touching post that mate.

 

[NorCalBlue]

This is the best article I could find. The study by Glasgow University suggests professional footballers 3.5 times more likely to suffer than general public. As you will see though, much more work to be done.

Football and dementia risk - is there a link?

News that professional footballers might be at a greater risk of dementia, and why that might be the case, has been the subject of great debate and interest. Our researchers examine the latest evidence around heading the ball and discuss what we know so far.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

Interesting article that raises lots of questions. Good that there are two new studies underway - they should provide a bit more data at least.

If heading the ball is (at least partly) responsible, I wonder if there's a 'breaking point' (total number of headers or number of headers in a certain amount of time) beyond which the damage is irreparable? To be a professional athlete in any sport, you have to put in thousands of hours of repetitive practice - way more than you'd ever do as an amateur. If a lot of that is dedicated to heading the ball, you can imagine that the risks might be significantly higher than for amateur players.

It may also turn out that head collisions rather than heading the ball is the problem. The brain may be able to cope with impacts up to a certain level and be irreversibly damaged only beyond that. Unfortunately, it might be hard to separate former players who headed the ball a lot from those who got a lot of concussions (diagnosed or otherwise), because the two are very closely correlated. Of course, even if only head collisions are dangerous, the solution would still be to ban heading the ball since heading the ball a lot leads to a lot of head collisions...