Grealish left out of the CWC squad (pg34)

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Dialog said:
Enjoyed reading that.

You’re trying to wrap mediocrity in the glory of Manchester City’s golden era — and I am not buying it. Let’s be clear: Grealish didn’t “fit like a glove,” he clung on, benefiting from a system so perfectly drilled it could carry a passenger without breaking stride and also, I won't take away his short lived 3-5Months, but it is not like his performance were anything to remember unless if you are his die-hard fan. Even if I wanted to, I would never take away from the incredible contribution and achievements of every player including Grealish, during that historic treble-winning season. They all played their part in making history.


Correlation isn’t causation. This isn’t a 5-a-side pub stat. He wasn’t the reason we won — he was there while the others dragged us over the line. If he was so crucial, we’d feel his absence. Yet whenever he’s out, our intensity increases, tempo improves, and decision-making sharpens. You don’t need to be Pep to see that. I think you are mistakening Rodri's absence for Grealish's influence!


No one is arguing against balance. But balance isn’t the same as anonymity. For £100M, you expect impact — not just jogging in tight triangles, shielding the ball, and slowing down attacks like he’s running down the clock in minute 7.


Absolutely. But nobody will be talking about Jack Grealish. They’ll be talking about Pep, about Haaland’s goal record, about Gundogan's clutch moments, about Rodri’s dominance, about Bernardo’s versatility — not a winger with fewer league goals over three seasons than some full-backs.


You’re mistaking lack of purpose for “discipline.” Grealish often kills promising transitions, plays safe when boldness is required, and avoids risk to the point of irrelevance. Opponents know he’s going to cut inside and recycle — there’s no edge, no unpredictability, no chaos — nothing to fear or worry about. And oh, we have been doing death by a 1000 cuts way before Grealish played in a City shirt!


Please. Don't try to sprinkle in nostalgic historical fluff to defend a modern luxury player in an era of ruthless efficiency. This isn’t about falling out of favor — it’s about never delivering enough to justify favor in the first place.

“armchair experts”? The same “experts” you mock were the ones calling for Doku when Grealish was sleepwalking through games. The same ones demanding a more dynamic left side to match our evolution and change the game. Guess what? They were right. You speak of "armchair experts", while you pose as one yourself, that is very rich!

We’re not talking about “Hello Magazine” — we’re talking about production, bravery, and technical output at the very top level. Grealish hasn’t delivered it consistently or enough, full stop.

So no, we don’t owe him a round of applause for existing in a treble-winning squad. And no, we’re not going to silence criticism because he held width and passed sideways.

Using Cruyff to defend Jack Grealish’s performances sounds poetic, but it's a complete misreading of what Cruyff actually stood for. The quote — “Playing football is very simple, but playing simple football is the hardest thing there is” — is often thrown around to excuse safe, uninspired play. But Cruyff wasn’t praising players who stall attacks, recycle possession sideways, and avoid risk. He was celebrating players who made the hardest decisions look effortless — fast 1-2s, intelligent off-ball movement, incisive passes in tight spaces. Grealish hasn’t embodied that.

Grealish’s style at City has become more about playing it safe than playing it simple. He slows transitions, plays backward or sideways far too often, and rarely takes on defenders unless it’s deep in the opposition half where the risk is minimal. That’s not “simple” football — it’s cautious football. It’s control without penetration. And when you’re in a team designed to suffocate the opposition with precision and movement, that lack of vertical threat becomes a liability.


Cruyff’s philosophy was about doing the most intelligent thing with the fewest touches — with bravery and intent. If Grealish truly played like Cruyff envisioned, he’d be dictating tempo, eliminating defenders with sharp decisions, and contributing heavily in goals and assists. Instead, 4 years in, he’s been outperformed by nearly every other winger on the team.

So let’s stop misusing Cruyff’s legacy to shield underwhelming performances. If anything, Cruyff would have demanded more from a £100M player operating in one of the best teams in history. Lets stop pretending like Grealish is some misunderstood genius embodying the gospel of Total Football.

Respect the badge, respect the standard. The bar is elite. Jack hasn’t cleared it.
Click to expand...
I see your sat on the fence about Jack.
Well more nailed, screwed, roped and taped to it.;-)
 
If we had signed him for around £50 million ( which would have been the sensible fee) I don’t think the endless heated debates about his performances would happen. . He’s just been just about ok . He was supposed to be the promised ‘statement signing,along with Harry Kane from Txiki. On the plus side very popular in the dressing room… kind natured. But a little too fond of the mirror and ‘ making the most of his leisure time’.
 
Dialog said:
Enjoyed reading that.

You’re trying to wrap mediocrity in the glory of Manchester City’s golden era — and I am not buying it. Let’s be clear: Grealish didn’t “fit like a glove,” he clung on, benefiting from a system so perfectly drilled it could carry a passenger without breaking stride and also, I won't take away his short lived 3-5Months, but it is not like his performance were anything to remember unless if you are his die-hard fan. Even if I wanted to, I would never take away from the incredible contribution and achievements of every player including Grealish, during that historic treble-winning season. They all played their part in making history.


Correlation isn’t causation. This isn’t a 5-a-side pub stat. He wasn’t the reason we won — he was there while the others dragged us over the line. If he was so crucial, we’d feel his absence. Yet whenever he’s out, our intensity increases, tempo improves, and decision-making sharpens. You don’t need to be Pep to see that. I think you are mistakening Rodri's absence for Grealish's influence!


No one is arguing against balance. But balance isn’t the same as anonymity. For £100M, you expect impact — not just jogging in tight triangles, shielding the ball, and slowing down attacks like he’s running down the clock in minute 7.


Absolutely. But nobody will be talking about Jack Grealish. They’ll be talking about Pep, about Haaland’s goal record, about Gundogan's clutch moments, about Rodri’s dominance, about Bernardo’s versatility — not a winger with fewer league goals over three seasons than some full-backs.


You’re mistaking lack of purpose for “discipline.” Grealish often kills promising transitions, plays safe when boldness is required, and avoids risk to the point of irrelevance. Opponents know he’s going to cut inside and recycle — there’s no edge, no unpredictability, no chaos — nothing to fear or worry about. And oh, we have been doing death by a 1000 cuts way before Grealish played in a City shirt!


Please. Don't try to sprinkle in nostalgic historical fluff to defend a modern luxury player in an era of ruthless efficiency. This isn’t about falling out of favor — it’s about never delivering enough to justify favor in the first place.

“armchair experts”? The same “experts” you mock were the ones calling for Doku when Grealish was sleepwalking through games. The same ones demanding a more dynamic left side to match our evolution and change the game. Guess what? They were right. You speak of "armchair experts", while you pose as one yourself, that is very rich!

We’re not talking about “Hello Magazine” — we’re talking about production, bravery, and technical output at the very top level. Grealish hasn’t delivered it consistently or enough, full stop.

So no, we don’t owe him a round of applause for existing in a treble-winning squad. And no, we’re not going to silence criticism because he held width and passed sideways.

Using Cruyff to defend Jack Grealish’s performances sounds poetic, but it's a complete misreading of what Cruyff actually stood for. The quote — “Playing football is very simple, but playing simple football is the hardest thing there is” — is often thrown around to excuse safe, uninspired play. But Cruyff wasn’t praising players who stall attacks, recycle possession sideways, and avoid risk. He was celebrating players who made the hardest decisions look effortless — fast 1-2s, intelligent off-ball movement, incisive passes in tight spaces. Grealish hasn’t embodied that.

Grealish’s style at City has become more about playing it safe than playing it simple. He slows transitions, plays backward or sideways far too often, and rarely takes on defenders unless it’s deep in the opposition half where the risk is minimal. That’s not “simple” football — it’s cautious football. It’s control without penetration. And when you’re in a team designed to suffocate the opposition with precision and movement, that lack of vertical threat becomes a liability.


Cruyff’s philosophy was about doing the most intelligent thing with the fewest touches — with bravery and intent. If Grealish truly played like Cruyff envisioned, he’d be dictating tempo, eliminating defenders with sharp decisions, and contributing heavily in goals and assists. Instead, 4 years in, he’s been outperformed by nearly every other winger on the team.

So let’s stop misusing Cruyff’s legacy to shield underwhelming performances. If anything, Cruyff would have demanded more from a £100M player operating in one of the best teams in history. Lets stop pretending like Grealish is some misunderstood genius embodying the gospel of Total Football.

Respect the badge, respect the standard. The bar is elite. Jack hasn’t cleared it.
Click to expand...

It's very good of you to not to "take away his short lived 3-5 Months" but Grealish was selected over a period of 3 years by one of the greatest footballing minds of all time so I'm in no way bound by this arbitrary time frame that you've just plucked out of the air.

People are completely fixated on the £100m fee which wasn't the British transfer record and is really now just the cost of a very good player. Furthermore Jack is the only £100m player to win the CL at the club who paid this fee, one of several coincidences regarding Grealish. Our triumphs over the last few years have in a lot of ways been the ultimate in team performances. People seem to regularly lambast him for not joining with an 'I'm the new sheriff in town' approach but I think it was both refreshing and appropriate for him to have knuckled down as a team player. And in doing so Grealish adjusted his game radically from his time at Villa: to focus more on recycling possession, winning fouls, eking out yards. The club, like many English clubs before, was on a journey of several years to win the CL so whilst you're entitled to your own subjective assessment of performance it pales in significance with achieving the ultimate objective of winning the CL. Grealish's role was never to try and take on 3 players and smash it in the top corner and he would had been benched if he'd tried this.

"If he was so crucial, we’d feel his absence. Yet whenever he’s out, our intensity increases, tempo improves, and decision-making sharpens." - and the results worsen. Grealish has started 1 FA cup defeat in 4 seasons and it wasn't a final. Grealish has started 1 out of 12 PL defeats in the last 2 seasons. If such discrepancies aren't 'feeling his absence'. I've no idea what measure you are using for this. The team plays differently depending on who's selected which is most noticeable with and without Haaland. And I'm in no way saying this is all down to Grealish, but the team with him in obtained better results than the team without him.

And I've absolutely no idea how you are claiming that those who urged the ball to be moved forward quickly have now been proved right. Patient football won 3 PLs and the CL. This season with the squad mentally and physically shattered after 4 in a row, Rodri injured, central defenders out injured for long spells, an aging midfield with a lack of legs it would had been utter insanity to get the ball forward quickly ending up with matches of many transitions. Pep only salvaged the season with his (short term) fix of the box midfield and telling players to not run around too much. It's only from next season onwards that it can be determined if getting the ball forward quickly is the future. And even if 3 PLs and 1 CL are won in the next 4 years that wouldn't prove it was wrong to play patient football with the players available in the last few seasons.

Another thing rarely mentioned is Grealish always showed up away from home where he'd be abused by the crowd and kicked more than most. I've seen plenty of attacking players who could do it at home with the sun shining but it was a different story away. There's a lot of truth in the adage about a Tuesday night in Stoke,

When a team's been successful, some amateur analyst trying to break down player's contribution reminds me of staff meals with someone trying to work out with a calculator the cost of what staff members have had to eat and drink. Except without the menu and price list.

There will be no asterisks in the record books against any of the players as illustrated by Villa's European Cup winning side and Everton's Cup Winners Cup winning sides:


Aston Villa
1 Rimmer (GK)
2 Swain
3 Williams
4 Evans
5 McNaught
6 Mortimer (C)
7 Bremner
8 Shaw
9 Withe
10 Cowans
11 Morley

Substitutes
16 Spink (GK)


Everton
GK 1 Neville Southall
RB 2 Gary Stevens (Yellow card 43')
CB 4 Kevin Ratcliffe (c)
CB 5 Derek Mountfield
LB 3 Pat Van Den Hauwe
RM 7 Trevor Steven
CM 6 Peter Reid
CM 10 Paul Bracewell
LM 11 Kevin Sheedy
CF 8 Graeme Sharp
CF 9 Andy Gray


So it's utterly irrelevant if there is someone in a corner of an Aston alehouse or Toxteth tavern saying "I'll tell you now, that Des Bremner/Trevor Steven was a passenger carried without breaking stride by a system so perfectly drilled. I've been saying it for the last 40 years"

And with regards the Cruyff quotes, in an era of ruthless efficiency City's results with the player in the side trump any subjective assessment of player performance by some grudging individual

Also, the silly rag like slogan you've written at the end is completely meaningless. When is it determined if this elite bar is cleared? How long do you give a player? What are you going to do if he doesn't in your view clear this bar?: boo him? stomp your feet? Wail and gnash your teeth and complain incessantly on here?

I'd imagine AC Milan and Ajax regard themselves as elite in their leagues but at this moment in time it doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is results on the pitch.

And given the cyclical nature of football, you are setting yourself up to look utterly ridiculous by saying a player who has won 3 Premier Leagues, 1 Champions League, 1 FA Cup, 1 UEFA Super Cup and 1 FIFA Club World Cup hasn't cleared some mythical elite bar. Jack's doubled up, not only clearing the elite bar but drinking at it as well.
 
think he's been treated terribly, given the no. 10 shirt and prob assumed that were he was going to play, not as a winger. might have the odd night out but i bet he's the fittest person in the squad - even in his off season when everyone things he's out partying 24-hrs, the clips of him training on his own showed how much work he actually was doing, he was more jacked than any of the other players ive seen. hope he gets a run in the middle but i doubt it, seems to be a broken relationship with Pep.
 
Luddite_Blue said:
It's very good of you to not to "take away his short lived 3-5 Months" but Grealish was selected over a period of 3 years by one of the greatest footballing minds of all time so I'm in no way bound by this arbitrary time frame that you've just plucked out of the air.

People are completely fixated on the £100m fee which wasn't the British transfer record and is really now just the cost of a very good player. Furthermore Jack is the only £100m player to win the CL at the club who paid this fee, one of several coincidences regarding Grealish. Our triumphs over the last few years have in a lot of ways been the ultimate in team performances. People seem to regularly lambast him for not joining with an 'I'm the new sheriff in town' approach but I think it was both refreshing and appropriate for him to have knuckled down as a team player. And in doing so Grealish adjusted his game radically from his time at Villa: to focus more on recycling possession, winning fouls, eking out yards. The club, like many English clubs before, was on a journey of several years to win the CL so whilst you're entitled to your own subjective assessment of performance it pales in significance with achieving the ultimate objective of winning the CL. Grealish's role was never to try and take on 3 players and smash it in the top corner and he would had been benched if he'd tried this.

"If he was so crucial, we’d feel his absence. Yet whenever he’s out, our intensity increases, tempo improves, and decision-making sharpens." - and the results worsen. Grealish has started 1 FA cup defeat in 4 seasons and it wasn't a final. Grealish has started 1 out of 12 PL defeats in the last 2 seasons. If such discrepancies aren't 'feeling his absence'. I've no idea what measure you are using for this. The team plays differently depending on who's selected which is most noticeable with and without Haaland. And I'm in no way saying this is all down to Grealish, but the team with him in obtained better results than the team without him.

And I've absolutely no idea how you are claiming that those who urged the ball to be moved forward quickly have now been proved right. Patient football won 3 PLs and the CL. This season with the squad mentally and physically shattered after 4 in a row, Rodri injured, central defenders out injured for long spells, an aging midfield with a lack of legs it would had been utter insanity to get the ball forward quickly ending up with matches of many transitions. Pep only salvaged the season with his (short term) fix of the box midfield and telling players to not run around too much. It's only from next season onwards that it can be determined if getting the ball forward quickly is the future. And even if 3 PLs and 1 CL are won in the next 4 years that wouldn't prove it was wrong to play patient football with the players available in the last few seasons.

Another thing rarely mentioned is Grealish always showed up away from home where he'd be abused by the crowd and kicked more than most. I've seen plenty of attacking players who could do it at home with the sun shining but it was a different story away. There's a lot of truth in the adage about a Tuesday night in Stoke,

When a team's been successful, some amateur analyst trying to break down player's contribution reminds me of staff meals with someone trying to work out with a calculator the cost of what staff members have had to eat and drink. Except without the menu and price list.

There will be no asterisks in the record books against any of the players as illustrated by Villa's European Cup winning side and Everton's Cup Winners Cup winning sides:


Aston Villa
1 Rimmer (GK)
2 Swain
3 Williams
4 Evans
5 McNaught
6 Mortimer (C)
7 Bremner
8 Shaw
9 Withe
10 Cowans
11 Morley

Substitutes
16 Spink (GK)


Everton
GK 1 Neville Southall
RB 2 Gary Stevens (Yellow card 43')
CB 4 Kevin Ratcliffe (c)
CB 5 Derek Mountfield
LB 3 Pat Van Den Hauwe
RM 7 Trevor Steven
CM 6 Peter Reid
CM 10 Paul Bracewell
LM 11 Kevin Sheedy
CF 8 Graeme Sharp
CF 9 Andy Gray


So it's utterly irrelevant if there is someone in a corner of an Aston alehouse or Toxteth tavern saying "I'll tell you now, that Des Bremner/Trevor Steven was a passenger carried without breaking stride by a system so perfectly drilled. I've been saying it for the last 40 years"

And with regards the Cruyff quotes, in an era of ruthless efficiency City's results with the player in the side trump any subjective assessment of player performance by some grudging individual

Also, the silly rag like slogan you've written at the end is completely meaningless. When is it determined if this elite bar is cleared? How long do you give a player? What are you going to do if he doesn't in your view clear this bar?: boo him? stomp your feet? Wail and gnash your teeth and complain incessantly on here?

I'd imagine AC Milan and Ajax regard themselves as elite in their leagues but at this moment in time it doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is results on the pitch.

And given the cyclical nature of football, you are setting yourself up to look utterly ridiculous by saying a player who has won 3 Premier Leagues, 1 Champions League, 1 FA Cup, 1 UEFA Super Cup and 1 FIFA Club World Cup hasn't cleared some mythical elite bar. Jack's doubled up, not only clearing the elite bar but drinking at it as well.
Click to expand...
I would say we've lost more not because Jack's not playing but because our defence has been decimated with injuries this season AND no Rodri to protect said crappy defence.

Jack offers hardly any goal or assist threat, he's easy to defend against as he does practically the same thing every time he gets the ball. So it's hard to say we'd have won more games this season if he'd played every game.
 
adelaideblue said:
think he's been treated terribly, given the no. 10 shirt and prob assumed that were he was going to play, not as a winger. might have the odd night out but i bet he's the fittest person in the squad - even in his off season when everyone things he's out partying 24-hrs, the clips of him training on his own showed how much work he actually was doing, he was more jacked than any of the other players ive seen. hope he gets a run in the middle but i doubt it, seems to be a broken relationship with Pep.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing he just got on the booze. Didn't seem right in interviews
 
Bill Walker said:
I would say we've lost more not because Jack's not playing but because our defence has been decimated with injuries this season AND no Rodri to protect said crappy defence.

Jack offers hardly any goal or assist threat, he's easy to defend against as he does practically the same thing every time he gets the ball. So it's hard to say we'd have won more games this season if he'd played every game.
Click to expand...

Retaining possession high up the pitch would be very useful in such circumstances. Grealish had 1 PL defeat in 7 starts this season which included games against Forest, Villa and Newcastle and 1 start against a relegated team. There were 8 PL defeats in 31 games when Grealish didn't start. So I'd say in a tougher sequence of games he featured in a lower rate of defeats.
 
the blue panther said:
There was a spell in that season when him, Ake and Foden were carrying the team. He always did the job Pep asked of him. He takes as much credit as anyone for the 'treble' season's achievements and I'll be very sad to see him leave.

Even in his few appearances this season he's never let us down. I hope he finds a club where he can be pivotal in the middle and get back to his very best - but not against us.
Click to expand...
Grealish did a lot of graft that went unnoticed a lot of the time. He was part of a suffocating press that forced turn overs and kept us high up the pitch. That requires diligence and plenty of effort. His defensive work top notch. There’s absolutely no doubt he was an important cog in the machine just as the other players that treble season were.
You dont beat Bayern Munich and Real Madrid convincingly carrying a passenger.
His time here is up and I think he could have done a lot more post treble season but hes been a success in my eyes and I wish him well wherever he goes.
 
Luddite_Blue said:
It's very good of you to not to "take away his short lived 3-5 Months" but Grealish was selected over a period of 3 years by one of the greatest footballing minds of all time so I'm in no way bound by this arbitrary time frame that you've just plucked out of the air.

People are completely fixated on the £100m fee which wasn't the British transfer record and is really now just the cost of a very good player. Furthermore Jack is the only £100m player to win the CL at the club who paid this fee, one of several coincidences regarding Grealish. Our triumphs over the last few years have in a lot of ways been the ultimate in team performances. People seem to regularly lambast him for not joining with an 'I'm the new sheriff in town' approach but I think it was both refreshing and appropriate for him to have knuckled down as a team player. And in doing so Grealish adjusted his game radically from his time at Villa: to focus more on recycling possession, winning fouls, eking out yards. The club, like many English clubs before, was on a journey of several years to win the CL so whilst you're entitled to your own subjective assessment of performance it pales in significance with achieving the ultimate objective of winning the CL. Grealish's role was never to try and take on 3 players and smash it in the top corner and he would had been benched if he'd tried this.

"If he was so crucial, we’d feel his absence. Yet whenever he’s out, our intensity increases, tempo improves, and decision-making sharpens." - and the results worsen. Grealish has started 1 FA cup defeat in 4 seasons and it wasn't a final. Grealish has started 1 out of 12 PL defeats in the last 2 seasons. If such discrepancies aren't 'feeling his absence'. I've no idea what measure you are using for this. The team plays differently depending on who's selected which is most noticeable with and without Haaland. And I'm in no way saying this is all down to Grealish, but the team with him in obtained better results than the team without him.

And I've absolutely no idea how you are claiming that those who urged the ball to be moved forward quickly have now been proved right. Patient football won 3 PLs and the CL. This season with the squad mentally and physically shattered after 4 in a row, Rodri injured, central defenders out injured for long spells, an aging midfield with a lack of legs it would had been utter insanity to get the ball forward quickly ending up with matches of many transitions. Pep only salvaged the season with his (short term) fix of the box midfield and telling players to not run around too much. It's only from next season onwards that it can be determined if getting the ball forward quickly is the future. And even if 3 PLs and 1 CL are won in the next 4 years that wouldn't prove it was wrong to play patient football with the players available in the last few seasons.

Another thing rarely mentioned is Grealish always showed up away from home where he'd be abused by the crowd and kicked more than most. I've seen plenty of attacking players who could do it at home with the sun shining but it was a different story away. There's a lot of truth in the adage about a Tuesday night in Stoke,

When a team's been successful, some amateur analyst trying to break down player's contribution reminds me of staff meals with someone trying to work out with a calculator the cost of what staff members have had to eat and drink. Except without the menu and price list.

There will be no asterisks in the record books against any of the players as illustrated by Villa's European Cup winning side and Everton's Cup Winners Cup winning sides:


Aston Villa
1 Rimmer (GK)
2 Swain
3 Williams
4 Evans
5 McNaught
6 Mortimer (C)
7 Bremner
8 Shaw
9 Withe
10 Cowans
11 Morley

Substitutes
16 Spink (GK)


Everton
GK 1 Neville Southall
RB 2 Gary Stevens (Yellow card 43')
CB 4 Kevin Ratcliffe (c)
CB 5 Derek Mountfield
LB 3 Pat Van Den Hauwe
RM 7 Trevor Steven
CM 6 Peter Reid
CM 10 Paul Bracewell
LM 11 Kevin Sheedy
CF 8 Graeme Sharp
CF 9 Andy Gray


So it's utterly irrelevant if there is someone in a corner of an Aston alehouse or Toxteth tavern saying "I'll tell you now, that Des Bremner/Trevor Steven was a passenger carried without breaking stride by a system so perfectly drilled. I've been saying it for the last 40 years"

And with regards the Cruyff quotes, in an era of ruthless efficiency City's results with the player in the side trump any subjective assessment of player performance by some grudging individual

Also, the silly rag like slogan you've written at the end is completely meaningless. When is it determined if this elite bar is cleared? How long do you give a player? What are you going to do if he doesn't in your view clear this bar?: boo him? stomp your feet? Wail and gnash your teeth and complain incessantly on here?

I'd imagine AC Milan and Ajax regard themselves as elite in their leagues but at this moment in time it doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is results on the pitch.

And given the cyclical nature of football, you are setting yourself up to look utterly ridiculous by saying a player who has won 3 Premier Leagues, 1 Champions League, 1 FA Cup, 1 UEFA Super Cup and 1 FIFA Club World Cup hasn't cleared some mythical elite bar. Jack's doubled up, not only clearing the elite bar but drinking at it as well.
Click to expand...
Brilliant post.
 
Luddite_Blue said:
It's very good of you to not to "take away his short lived 3-5 Months" but Grealish was selected over a period of 3 years by one of the greatest footballing minds of all time so I'm in no way bound by this arbitrary time frame that you've just plucked out of the air.

People are completely fixated on the £100m fee which wasn't the British transfer record and is really now just the cost of a very good player. Furthermore Jack is the only £100m player to win the CL at the club who paid this fee, one of several coincidences regarding Grealish. Our triumphs over the last few years have in a lot of ways been the ultimate in team performances. People seem to regularly lambast him for not joining with an 'I'm the new sheriff in town' approach but I think it was both refreshing and appropriate for him to have knuckled down as a team player. And in doing so Grealish adjusted his game radically from his time at Villa: to focus more on recycling possession, winning fouls, eking out yards. The club, like many English clubs before, was on a journey of several years to win the CL so whilst you're entitled to your own subjective assessment of performance it pales in significance with achieving the ultimate objective of winning the CL. Grealish's role was never to try and take on 3 players and smash it in the top corner and he would had been benched if he'd tried this.

"If he was so crucial, we’d feel his absence. Yet whenever he’s out, our intensity increases, tempo improves, and decision-making sharpens." - and the results worsen. Grealish has started 1 FA cup defeat in 4 seasons and it wasn't a final. Grealish has started 1 out of 12 PL defeats in the last 2 seasons. If such discrepancies aren't 'feeling his absence'. I've no idea what measure you are using for this. The team plays differently depending on who's selected which is most noticeable with and without Haaland. And I'm in no way saying this is all down to Grealish, but the team with him in obtained better results than the team without him.

And I've absolutely no idea how you are claiming that those who urged the ball to be moved forward quickly have now been proved right. Patient football won 3 PLs and the CL. This season with the squad mentally and physically shattered after 4 in a row, Rodri injured, central defenders out injured for long spells, an aging midfield with a lack of legs it would had been utter insanity to get the ball forward quickly ending up with matches of many transitions. Pep only salvaged the season with his (short term) fix of the box midfield and telling players to not run around too much. It's only from next season onwards that it can be determined if getting the ball forward quickly is the future. And even if 3 PLs and 1 CL are won in the next 4 years that wouldn't prove it was wrong to play patient football with the players available in the last few seasons.

Another thing rarely mentioned is Grealish always showed up away from home where he'd be abused by the crowd and kicked more than most. I've seen plenty of attacking players who could do it at home with the sun shining but it was a different story away. There's a lot of truth in the adage about a Tuesday night in Stoke,

When a team's been successful, some amateur analyst trying to break down player's contribution reminds me of staff meals with someone trying to work out with a calculator the cost of what staff members have had to eat and drink. Except without the menu and price list.

There will be no asterisks in the record books against any of the players as illustrated by Villa's European Cup winning side and Everton's Cup Winners Cup winning sides:


Aston Villa
1 Rimmer (GK)
2 Swain
3 Williams
4 Evans
5 McNaught
6 Mortimer (C)
7 Bremner
8 Shaw
9 Withe
10 Cowans
11 Morley

Substitutes
16 Spink (GK)


Everton
GK 1 Neville Southall
RB 2 Gary Stevens (Yellow card 43')
CB 4 Kevin Ratcliffe (c)
CB 5 Derek Mountfield
LB 3 Pat Van Den Hauwe
RM 7 Trevor Steven
CM 6 Peter Reid
CM 10 Paul Bracewell
LM 11 Kevin Sheedy
CF 8 Graeme Sharp
CF 9 Andy Gray


So it's utterly irrelevant if there is someone in a corner of an Aston alehouse or Toxteth tavern saying "I'll tell you now, that Des Bremner/Trevor Steven was a passenger carried without breaking stride by a system so perfectly drilled. I've been saying it for the last 40 years"

And with regards the Cruyff quotes, in an era of ruthless efficiency City's results with the player in the side trump any subjective assessment of player performance by some grudging individual

Also, the silly rag like slogan you've written at the end is completely meaningless. When is it determined if this elite bar is cleared? How long do you give a player? What are you going to do if he doesn't in your view clear this bar?: boo him? stomp your feet? Wail and gnash your teeth and complain incessantly on here?

I'd imagine AC Milan and Ajax regard themselves as elite in their leagues but at this moment in time it doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is results on the pitch.

And given the cyclical nature of football, you are setting yourself up to look utterly ridiculous by saying a player who has won 3 Premier Leagues, 1 Champions League, 1 FA Cup, 1 UEFA Super Cup and 1 FIFA Club World Cup hasn't cleared some mythical elite bar. Jack's doubled up, not only clearing the elite bar but drinking at it as well.
Click to expand...
You've got the Blue Moon PhD for that.
 
Luddite_Blue said:
It's very good of you to not to "take away his short lived 3-5 Months" but Grealish was selected over a period of 3 years by one of the greatest footballing minds of all time so I'm in no way bound by this arbitrary time frame that you've just plucked out of the air.

People are completely fixated on the £100m fee which wasn't the British transfer record and is really now just the cost of a very good player. Furthermore Jack is the only £100m player to win the CL at the club who paid this fee, one of several coincidences regarding Grealish. Our triumphs over the last few years have in a lot of ways been the ultimate in team performances. People seem to regularly lambast him for not joining with an 'I'm the new sheriff in town' approach but I think it was both refreshing and appropriate for him to have knuckled down as a team player. And in doing so Grealish adjusted his game radically from his time at Villa: to focus more on recycling possession, winning fouls, eking out yards. The club, like many English clubs before, was on a journey of several years to win the CL so whilst you're entitled to your own subjective assessment of performance it pales in significance with achieving the ultimate objective of winning the CL. Grealish's role was never to try and take on 3 players and smash it in the top corner and he would had been benched if he'd tried this.

"If he was so crucial, we’d feel his absence. Yet whenever he’s out, our intensity increases, tempo improves, and decision-making sharpens." - and the results worsen. Grealish has started 1 FA cup defeat in 4 seasons and it wasn't a final. Grealish has started 1 out of 12 PL defeats in the last 2 seasons. If such discrepancies aren't 'feeling his absence'. I've no idea what measure you are using for this. The team plays differently depending on who's selected which is most noticeable with and without Haaland. And I'm in no way saying this is all down to Grealish, but the team with him in obtained better results than the team without him.

And I've absolutely no idea how you are claiming that those who urged the ball to be moved forward quickly have now been proved right. Patient football won 3 PLs and the CL. This season with the squad mentally and physically shattered after 4 in a row, Rodri injured, central defenders out injured for long spells, an aging midfield with a lack of legs it would had been utter insanity to get the ball forward quickly ending up with matches of many transitions. Pep only salvaged the season with his (short term) fix of the box midfield and telling players to not run around too much. It's only from next season onwards that it can be determined if getting the ball forward quickly is the future. And even if 3 PLs and 1 CL are won in the next 4 years that wouldn't prove it was wrong to play patient football with the players available in the last few seasons.

Another thing rarely mentioned is Grealish always showed up away from home where he'd be abused by the crowd and kicked more than most. I've seen plenty of attacking players who could do it at home with the sun shining but it was a different story away. There's a lot of truth in the adage about a Tuesday night in Stoke,

When a team's been successful, some amateur analyst trying to break down player's contribution reminds me of staff meals with someone trying to work out with a calculator the cost of what staff members have had to eat and drink. Except without the menu and price list.

There will be no asterisks in the record books against any of the players as illustrated by Villa's European Cup winning side and Everton's Cup Winners Cup winning sides:


Aston Villa
1 Rimmer (GK)
2 Swain
3 Williams
4 Evans
5 McNaught
6 Mortimer (C)
7 Bremner
8 Shaw
9 Withe
10 Cowans
11 Morley

Substitutes
16 Spink (GK)


Everton
GK 1 Neville Southall
RB 2 Gary Stevens (Yellow card 43')
CB 4 Kevin Ratcliffe (c)
CB 5 Derek Mountfield
LB 3 Pat Van Den Hauwe
RM 7 Trevor Steven
CM 6 Peter Reid
CM 10 Paul Bracewell
LM 11 Kevin Sheedy
CF 8 Graeme Sharp
CF 9 Andy Gray


So it's utterly irrelevant if there is someone in a corner of an Aston alehouse or Toxteth tavern saying "I'll tell you now, that Des Bremner/Trevor Steven was a passenger carried without breaking stride by a system so perfectly drilled. I've been saying it for the last 40 years"

And with regards the Cruyff quotes, in an era of ruthless efficiency City's results with the player in the side trump any subjective assessment of player performance by some grudging individual

Also, the silly rag like slogan you've written at the end is completely meaningless. When is it determined if this elite bar is cleared? How long do you give a player? What are you going to do if he doesn't in your view clear this bar?: boo him? stomp your feet? Wail and gnash your teeth and complain incessantly on here?

I'd imagine AC Milan and Ajax regard themselves as elite in their leagues but at this moment in time it doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is results on the pitch.

And given the cyclical nature of football, you are setting yourself up to look utterly ridiculous by saying a player who has won 3 Premier Leagues, 1 Champions League, 1 FA Cup, 1 UEFA Super Cup and 1 FIFA Club World Cup hasn't cleared some mythical elite bar. Jack's doubled up, not only clearing the elite bar but drinking at it as well.
Click to expand...

When a like isn't enough, top post.
 
I'll be honest, I think Jack Grealish is a brilliant type of player for a certain game. When we need to control the ball or see the game out, he's the best player in our squad to have on the pitch. The guy literally never gives the ball away.

I like him as a person.

I'd be sad to see him go. But if he does leave this summer, he'll be leaving with my best wishes and I'm sure he'll get a warm reception each time he visits the Etihad.
 
Luddite_Blue said:
It's very good of you to not to "take away his short lived 3-5 Months" but Grealish was selected over a period of 3 years by one of the greatest footballing minds of all time so I'm in no way bound by this arbitrary time frame that you've just plucked out of the air.

People are completely fixated on the £100m fee which wasn't the British transfer record and is really now just the cost of a very good player. Furthermore Jack is the only £100m player to win the CL at the club who paid this fee, one of several coincidences regarding Grealish. Our triumphs over the last few years have in a lot of ways been the ultimate in team performances. People seem to regularly lambast him for not joining with an 'I'm the new sheriff in town' approach but I think it was both refreshing and appropriate for him to have knuckled down as a team player. And in doing so Grealish adjusted his game radically from his time at Villa: to focus more on recycling possession, winning fouls, eking out yards. The club, like many English clubs before, was on a journey of several years to win the CL so whilst you're entitled to your own subjective assessment of performance it pales in significance with achieving the ultimate objective of winning the CL. Grealish's role was never to try and take on 3 players and smash it in the top corner and he would had been benched if he'd tried this.

"If he was so crucial, we’d feel his absence. Yet whenever he’s out, our intensity increases, tempo improves, and decision-making sharpens." - and the results worsen. Grealish has started 1 FA cup defeat in 4 seasons and it wasn't a final. Grealish has started 1 out of 12 PL defeats in the last 2 seasons. If such discrepancies aren't 'feeling his absence'. I've no idea what measure you are using for this. The team plays differently depending on who's selected which is most noticeable with and without Haaland. And I'm in no way saying this is all down to Grealish, but the team with him in obtained better results than the team without him.

And I've absolutely no idea how you are claiming that those who urged the ball to be moved forward quickly have now been proved right. Patient football won 3 PLs and the CL. This season with the squad mentally and physically shattered after 4 in a row, Rodri injured, central defenders out injured for long spells, an aging midfield with a lack of legs it would had been utter insanity to get the ball forward quickly ending up with matches of many transitions. Pep only salvaged the season with his (short term) fix of the box midfield and telling players to not run around too much. It's only from next season onwards that it can be determined if getting the ball forward quickly is the future. And even if 3 PLs and 1 CL are won in the next 4 years that wouldn't prove it was wrong to play patient football with the players available in the last few seasons.

Another thing rarely mentioned is Grealish always showed up away from home where he'd be abused by the crowd and kicked more than most. I've seen plenty of attacking players who could do it at home with the sun shining but it was a different story away. There's a lot of truth in the adage about a Tuesday night in Stoke,

When a team's been successful, some amateur analyst trying to break down player's contribution reminds me of staff meals with someone trying to work out with a calculator the cost of what staff members have had to eat and drink. Except without the menu and price list.

There will be no asterisks in the record books against any of the players as illustrated by Villa's European Cup winning side and Everton's Cup Winners Cup winning sides:


Aston Villa
1 Rimmer (GK)
2 Swain
3 Williams
4 Evans
5 McNaught
6 Mortimer (C)
7 Bremner
8 Shaw
9 Withe
10 Cowans
11 Morley

Substitutes
16 Spink (GK)


Everton
GK 1 Neville Southall
RB 2 Gary Stevens (Yellow card 43')
CB 4 Kevin Ratcliffe (c)
CB 5 Derek Mountfield
LB 3 Pat Van Den Hauwe
RM 7 Trevor Steven
CM 6 Peter Reid
CM 10 Paul Bracewell
LM 11 Kevin Sheedy
CF 8 Graeme Sharp
CF 9 Andy Gray


So it's utterly irrelevant if there is someone in a corner of an Aston alehouse or Toxteth tavern saying "I'll tell you now, that Des Bremner/Trevor Steven was a passenger carried without breaking stride by a system so perfectly drilled. I've been saying it for the last 40 years"

And with regards the Cruyff quotes, in an era of ruthless efficiency City's results with the player in the side trump any subjective assessment of player performance by some grudging individual

Also, the silly rag like slogan you've written at the end is completely meaningless. When is it determined if this elite bar is cleared? How long do you give a player? What are you going to do if he doesn't in your view clear this bar?: boo him? stomp your feet? Wail and gnash your teeth and complain incessantly on here?

I'd imagine AC Milan and Ajax regard themselves as elite in their leagues but at this moment in time it doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is results on the pitch.

And given the cyclical nature of football, you are setting yourself up to look utterly ridiculous by saying a player who has won 3 Premier Leagues, 1 Champions League, 1 FA Cup, 1 UEFA Super Cup and 1 FIFA Club World Cup hasn't cleared some mythical elite bar. Jack's doubled up, not only clearing the elite bar but drinking at it as well.
Click to expand...
Well I notice you are not nailed, screwed, roped and taped to the fence regards Jack;-)
 
adelaideblue said:
think he's been treated terribly, given the no. 10 shirt and prob assumed that were he was going to play, not as a winger. might have the odd night out but i bet he's the fittest person in the squad - even in his off season when everyone things he's out partying 24-hrs, the clips of him training on his own showed how much work he actually was doing, he was more jacked than any of the other players ive seen. hope he gets a run in the middle but i doubt it, seems to be a broken relationship with Pep.
Click to expand...
Fittest person in the squad? Are you kidding me? He was blowing out of his arse in the games he played. I think it’s his lack of fitness that has been one of the problems this season.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
Fittest person in the squad? Are you kidding me? He was blowing out of his arse in the games he played. I think it’s his lack of fitness that has been one of the problems this season.
Click to expand...
No he wasn't at all. What a load of bollocks. Are you going to criticise Pep for consistently having him on the bench then if he isn't fit? Taking up a cup final spot for a player who isn't fit enough? It is a load of shite and when he played this season he usually had a good game. A manager refusing to play him for consecutive games has hampered him as much as anything else. Many players underperformed all season and still got minutes so it can't be "he isn't playing well so that's why he didn't get time" He was badly managed by Pep and it is Peps decision but if he was freezing him out he shouldn't have had him taking up spots in our match day squads or then popping up to start fa cup semi finals.

It is a shame it hasn't worked out but we are at the point where it suits all parties for him to leave. I'm not fickle and won't forget the contribution from him in our clubs greatest ever season.
 
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