Great Article In The Independent ( A must read) The truth!

moomba said:
CBlue said:
What cash offer did you have in mind? There were shared contracts between Milan & Kaka's image rights etc. - how much were these contracts worth to Kaka? Could we then go & leverage those same (assumed) contracts & create more value which would therefore reduce the amount of money Kaka would need to receive from us? Was it even plausible to do so?Everyone was saying from the beginning that this was a highly complex deal because of what was involved &, to answer your second question, Kaka sent an engineer (who happened to be his father) to negotiate them having very limited experience. City sent 3 lawyers & an expert in the negotiation of image rights who happened to have managed them for a global sports figure who is bigger than Kaka. Cook said that he was "unsophisticated & unprofessional". Let me know if you require any further help to work it out.
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His commercial agreements are his responsibility. If they wanted a cash offer, then thats their business. And if they don't want to use lawyers then thats their business.

Seems to me like we thought we knew better than them, a touch arrogant if you ask me.
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Its quite simple no person or business spends money on anything without knowing what they are to get in return. You don't buy a car without a test drive or look at the engine. You dont spend hundreds of millions on a player without knowing the finer details i.e. without knowing what you are getting in return.
 
Dunny said:
Its quite simple no person or business spends money on anything without knowing what they are to get in return. You don't buy a car without a test drive or look at the engine. You dont spend hundreds of millions on a player without knowing the finer details i.e. without knowing what you are getting in return.
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And you don't agree a contract with an employer that doesn't want to tell you how much you are going to earn.

We knew what we would get in return, the player. IF they wanted to know how much we were going to pay the player we should have told him. If that affected his commercial agreements thats for his representatives to take into account when deciding whether to agree or not.
 
moomba said:
Dunny said:
Its quite simple no person or business spends money on anything without knowing what they are to get in return. You don't buy a car without a test drive or look at the engine. You dont spend hundreds of millions on a player without knowing the finer details i.e. without knowing what you are getting in return.
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And you don't agree a contract with an employer that doesn't want to tell you how much you are going to earn.

We knew what we would get in return, the player. IF they wanted to know how much we were going to pay the player we should have told him. If that affected his commercial agreements thats for his representatives to take into account when deciding whether to agree or not.
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To be perfectly honest, for a deal like Kaka with 100M, it would be really naive to think that they are just buying the "player" only, like it or not its more a business investment than merely a sporting one
 
dbsmcfc said:
To be perfectly honest, for a deal like Kaka with 100M, it would be really naive to think that they are just buying the "player" only, like it or not its more a business investment than merely a sporting one
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I'm not suggesting that we give them the cash value and have him sign on the dotted line straight away.

But the fact is that they wanted the cash value, we weren't give it to them and the negotiations stopped.

I guess we can blame it all on them if we like, and be proud that we negotiated the way we wanted to negotiate.
 
moomba said:
dbsmcfc said:
To be perfectly honest, for a deal like Kaka with 100M, it would be really naive to think that they are just buying the "player" only, like it or not its more a business investment than merely a sporting one
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I'm not suggesting that we give them the cash value and have him sign on the dotted line straight away.

But the fact is that they wanted the cash value, we weren't give it to them and the negotiations stopped.

I guess we can blame it all on them if we like, and be proud that we negotiated the way we wanted to negotiate.
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But since the complexity of the deal, with some many legal aspects need to be considered (adidas contract, image right, etc), it would be rash for us to just offer him a cash offer.

I believe that City would like to take in all the info about kaka's financial situation and then base on that to formulate a personal offer.

And for Kaka's father to issue an ultimatum in the middle of the night for cash offer seems a bit off. It is not like they don't know City is loaded with cash and are ready to pay his son a handsomely amount for the service. Also the italy news break the story 8 mins after the discussion is off, it is shown that Milan clearly had a plan firmly in hand.
 
dbsmcfc said:
moomba said:
I'm not suggesting that we give them the cash value and have him sign on the dotted line straight away.

But the fact is that they wanted the cash value, we weren't give it to them and the negotiations stopped.

I guess we can blame it all on them if we like, and be proud that we negotiated the way we wanted to negotiate.
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But since the complexity of the deal, with some many legal aspects need to be considered (adidas contract, image right, etc), it would be rash for us to just offer him a cash offer.

I believe that City would like to take in all the info about kaka's financial situation and then base on that to formulate a personal offer.

And for Kaka's father to issue an ultimatum in the middle of the night for cash offer seems a bit off. It is not like they don't know City is loaded with cash and are ready to pay his son a handsomely amount for the service. Also the italy news break the story 8 mins after the discussion is off, it is shown that Milan clearly had a plan firmly in hand.
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His Adidas contract is his business, if he loses out money on that contract by coming to City then his representatives need to take that into account when assessing our offer. If he wants compensation for that, thats where the negotiation comes in. But you need to at least have a ballpark figure before you can negotiate.

But, we're clearly not going to agree, so I'll concede and call it a faultless and ragingly successful negotiation. I wonder if he'll start in the side or the bench next Wednesday.
 
I can understand that due diligence and thorough research had to be done on the players existing contracts to understand how a change of club could impact him and us. However, I dont see why we couldnt give them a cash amount and just add a caveat that this may change based upon existing contracts. Say Cook gets the call at 11.03pm. Kaka's dad wants a figure. Why not just say "200k a week after tax is our wages but that will be affected by further investigation into existing imaging and contractual rights." If Kakas dad decides to hang up, then hey-ho fuck him.
At the end of the day, I thought this was purely about getting the best player in the world at City. Seems I was wrong.
 
I read that Kaka had something in the region of 20 sponsorship deals. I'm sorry but you really need to know at least the basic structure & clauses of each of these agreements and how it might affect you before you can come up with a figure that you'd like to pay the player each week.

The whole point of being able to offer him 500,000 and still make "business sense" as Cook/Hughes have implied, is that you can go to town with IP rights. What if the Adidas agreement stipulated that Kaka cannot be seen endorsing any other sporting apparel brand? There could have been a million other clauses which would have constrained our ability to market him.

I think we could have offered a ballpark figure on salary (after sleeping on it the night before the next meeting), but it sounds like they got cold feet in a hurry so we never got to that stage.

For once, i'm firmly on Cooks side on this. This is one part of football where he knows his shit. I cant really blame him for Milan/Bosco not coming through on a similarly professional level.
 
moomba said:
CBlue said:
What cash offer did you have in mind? There were shared contracts between Milan & Kaka's image rights etc. - how much were these contracts worth to Kaka? Could we then go & leverage those same (assumed) contracts & create more value which would therefore reduce the amount of money Kaka would need to receive from us? Was it even plausible to do so?Everyone was saying from the beginning that this was a highly complex deal because of what was involved &, to answer your second question, Kaka sent an engineer (who happened to be his father) to negotiate them having very limited experience. City sent 3 lawyers & an expert in the negotiation of image rights who happened to have managed them for a global sports figure who is bigger than Kaka. Cook said that he was "unsophisticated & unprofessional". Let me know if you require any further help to work it out.
Click to expand...

His commercial agreements are his responsibility. If they wanted a cash offer, then thats their business. And if they don't want to use lawyers then thats their business.

Seems to me like we thought we knew better than them, a touch arrogant if you ask me.
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Er, but we did. Cook's a professional, Kaka and papa determinedly amateurish. I'm rather impressed with Cook - he has his head screwed on.
 
Dubai Blue said:
moomba said:
a touch arrogant if you ask me.
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A bit like you thinking you know better than the man who used to market the rights of Michael Jordan.
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Are you suggesting that we should never question Cook because he used to market a basketball player?
 
moomba said:
Dubai Blue said:
A bit like you thinking you know better than the man who used to market the rights of Michael Jordan.
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Are you suggesting that we should never question Cook because he used to market a basketball player?
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No. I'm suggesting that when it comes to complex agreements centred around intellectual property rights, Mr. Cook probably knows a little more than you.

Have you thrown your seasoncard away yet?
 
I'm pretty much converted.

Job 1 - sign Kaka - failed
Job 2 - turn above into positive outcome

Seems to be doing pretty well at 2. Gives an opportunity to explain in world press just what the deal could have done for Kaka if only his reps had appreciated it.

Expect agents to do the sums and be on phone.

Wish he could have pulled off Job 1 though and he certainly should not be above scrutiny on why Job 1 failed. Given the current free opportunity to publish exactly how we see a deal for a world star being structured, can't see the Kaka problems ever arising again.
 

Well we may as well not bother having a discussion board if thats the case.

As for my ST and what i have done with it has nothing to do with this thread. So if you cant stop yourself from talking about me in football topics i recommend you say what you need to say in a pm. Cheers.
 
but if you read the article there are only certain quotes off cook the rest are put in by the reporters who i take it wasn t in the room with them
 
Their attitude to all this is indicative of the malaise which has set in to every fibre of the Italian economy - they are so behind the 8 ball in terms of modern day marketing and prefer to live in a bygone age where only the mafia get results
 
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