Grenfell Tower block disaster

tv news just said theres still pockets of fire in the building, 24hrs on, fuck me whats goin on
 
I remember watching Towering Inferno on TV years ago with my father, who halfway through the film, said it was a load of rubbish as buildings were designed to stop the spread of flames from one floor to the next.

He was an architect, so I have to presume he knew what he was talking about.

I read an article today by an engineer or architect, someone who knew about building standards, who said that while internally, the prevention of fire from one floor to another was tightly regulated, there was little to no legislation regarding outside structures. He cited the example of a new high rise development somewhere in London that had 6 inch thick polystyrene tiles fitted to the outside of the building for insulation, with aesthetic cladding covering it up, and a 2cm gap between the two to prevent damp.

It was, he wrote, a perfect conduit for flames to spread over the whole building, but it was perfectly legal.

After what happened yesterday, it's time for a rethink.
 
I'll never forget the Woolworths fire in 1979. Just seeing the newspaper photos of people trying to get out was traumatising and has never left me.

Another tragedy that led to changes in what furniture was made of if memory serves.
 
lazerblue said:
tv news just said theres still pockets of fire in the building, 24hrs on, fuck me whats goin on
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A mate of mine was in the fire service and attended the aftermath of the Valley Parade fire. He was there more than 24 hours later, dampening it down.
 
PinkFinal said:
I'll never forget the Woolworths fire in 1979. Just seeing the newspaper photos of people trying to get out was traumatising and has never left me.

Another tragedy that led to changes in what furniture was made of if memory serves.
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Mates mum died in that, and years later my sons mates father turned out he'd been burnt during it. I was only 11 at the time but do remember images from it.
 
So it looks like there's no requirement to retrospectively back fit fire safety features (alarms/sprinklers) that are a requirement to new builds even though this was recommended by the fire safety committee in 2013, are old buildings somehow safer? I don't think so.
 
andyhinch said:
So it looks like there's no requirement to retrospectively back fit fire safety features (alarms/sprinklers) that are a requirement to new builds even though this was recommended by the fire safety committee in 2013, are old buildings somehow safer? I don't think so.
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Saw an interview yesterday where the LFB only just managed to get sprinklers fitted in the Olympic village they weren't going to fit them until lobbying by the brigade forced them to
 
These types of tragedies show imo how disconnected governments are from people. Just like wherever most of us work there's a big void between upper management and the real problems and opportunities at the shop floor.

A very simple list of ALL known or suspected safety issues should be compiled by Governments and a list of all current expenditures. And then for the next 10 years all funding would be completely transparent. So that everyone could understand the immensity of the task and the honesty of the approach. But it would be to simple and not allow politics to guide things.

One day I hope there's an "honest Trump" to lead a new way.
 
andyhinch said:
So it looks like there's no requirement to retrospectively back fit fire safety features (alarms/sprinklers) that are a requirement to new builds even though this was recommended by the fire safety committee in 2013, are old buildings somehow safer? I don't think so.
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Retro fitting a sprinkler system is multiple times more expensive than if it's included in the initial build. Which is the reason it's not a requirement sadly.
 
I wonder if technology is at the point that drones could rescue people 1 by 1? A city the size of London could afford hundreds to evacuate people in minutes.

Again this is so sad and so enraging.
 
andyhinch said:
So it looks like there's no requirement to retrospectively back fit fire safety features (alarms/sprinklers) that are a requirement to new builds even though this was recommended by the fire safety committee in 2013, are old buildings somehow safer? I don't think so.
Click to expand...
It seems ridiculous to me that high rise residential properties don't have to have things like sprinkler systems, fire alarms etc, by law, and yet a commercial property does. Every office block these days has all of the above and more, with regular tests, and even practise evacuations, yet a residential block with 500+ people doesn't, that surely has to change.

After yesterday's fire I took a lot more notice of the block I live in (6 years old), which isn't high rise by the way, just 6 storey, but we have no fire alarm, though we do have smoke alarms throughout, both in the flats, and the communal areas, we also have a smoke vent, which I assume is linked to the smoke alarms, that opens in event of a fire, again I assume this is to remove smoke from communal areas to aid getting out. To my knowledge the smoke alarms are never tested, at least I've never seen or heard them, though from the yearly accounts of the management company, there are fire inspections done annually. The instructions are the same, in the event of a fire in your own flat, leave and close the door then raise the alarm, but if its elsewhere in the block, stay in your flat until told otherwise. I'm only 4 floors up, but I would now get out immediately, even though each block has its own staircase, probably no more than 10-15 flats per exit. Our block(s) don't have any cladding on them, just a stone like rendering, but I don't know what its applied on to, but I doubt it would burn as easily as that. That said, I wouldn't trust the company that built our flats, as some of the finish was very shoddy, and I know corners were cut with some of the materials and equipment used.
 
johnmc said:
Retro fitting a sprinkler system is multiple times more expensive than if it's included in the initial build. Which is the reason it's not a requirement sadly.
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I'm not sure if I agree with that especially if part of a refurbishment project, the plumbing itself is relatively simple, it does cost though for sure as does an alarm system.
 
TonyM said:
I wonder if technology is at the point that drones could rescue people 1 by 1? A city the size of London could afford hundreds to evacuate people in minutes.

Again this is so sad and so enraging.
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A lot of suggestions on here are pie in the sky I'm afraid ropes, zip wires, parachutes look at the fire it's on a the side of the building you can't leave that way the only way is down the stairs, this is one of those incidents that if it can go wrong it did.
 
Blue Maverick said:
A lot of suggestions on here are pie in the sky I'm afraid ropes, zip wires, parachutes look at the fire it's on a the side of the building you can't leave that way the only way is down the stairs, this is one of those incidents that if it can go wrong it did.
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I know but maybe new technological advancements would make some pie in the sky concepts more credible.

Should be no need for the fancy stuff though. These types of buildings should meet much much higher standards.
 
cleavers said:
It seems ridiculous to me that high rise residential properties don't have to have things like sprinkler systems, fire alarms etc, by law, and yet a commercial property does. Every office block these days has all of the above and more, with regular tests, and even practise evacuations, yet a residential block with 500+ people doesn't, that surely has to change.

After yesterday's fire I took a lot more notice of the block I live in (6 years old), which isn't high rise by the way, just 6 storey, but we have no fire alarm, though we do have smoke alarms throughout, both in the flats, and the communal areas, we also have a smoke vent, which I assume is linked to the smoke alarms, that opens in event of a fire, again I assume this is to remove smoke from communal areas to aid getting out. To my knowledge the smoke alarms are never tested, at least I've never seen or heard them, though from the yearly accounts of the management company, there are fire inspections done annually. The instructions are the same, in the event of a fire in your own flat, leave and close the door then raise the alarm, but if its elsewhere in the block, stay in your flat until told otherwise. I'm only 4 floors up, but I would now get out immediately, even though each block has its own staircase, probably no more than 10-15 flats per exit. Our block(s) don't have any cladding on them, just a stone like rendering, but I don't know what its applied on to, but I doubt it would burn as easily as that. That said, I wouldn't trust the company that built our flats, as some of the finish was very shoddy, and I know corners were cut with some of the materials and equipment used.
Click to expand...
cleavers said:
It seems ridiculous to me that high rise residential properties don't have to have things like sprinkler systems, fire alarms etc, by law, and yet a commercial property does. Every office block these days has all of the above and more, with regular tests, and even practise evacuations, yet a residential block with 500+ people doesn't, that surely has to change.

After yesterday's fire I took a lot more notice of the block I live in (6 years old), which isn't high rise by the way, just 6 storey, but we have no fire alarm, though we do have smoke alarms throughout, both in the flats, and the communal areas, we also have a smoke vent, which I assume is linked to the smoke alarms, that opens in event of a fire, again I assume this is to remove smoke from communal areas to aid getting out. To my knowledge the smoke alarms are never tested, at least I've never seen or heard them, though from the yearly accounts of the management company, there are fire inspections done annually. The instructions are the same, in the event of a fire in your own flat, leave and close the door then raise the alarm, but if its elsewhere in the block, stay in your flat until told otherwise. I'm only 4 floors up, but I would now get out immediately, even though each block has its own staircase, probably no more than 10-15 flats per exit. Our block(s) don't have any cladding on them, just a stone like rendering, but I don't know what its applied on to, but I doubt it would burn as easily as that. That said, I wouldn't trust the company that built our flats, as some of the finish was very shoddy, and I know corners were cut with some of the materials and equipment used.
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I find the lack of any format of safety legislation unbelievable, if I put any new equipment in an industrial building all safety measures have to be looked at and signed off by the chief fire officer, glad I live in a ground floor garden flat at the minute.
 
What if each person in the flats is provided with fire proof clothing, helmet, oxygen mask etc similar to what a fireman would wear?
 
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